Improving Signal’s Sealed Sender - NDSS Symposium https://www.ndss-symposium.org/ndss-paper/improving-signals-sealed-sender/
The Signal messaging service recently deployed a emph{sealed sender} feature that provides sender anonymity by cryptographically hiding a message’s sender from the service provider. We demonstrate, both theoretically and empirically, that this one-sided anonymity is broken when two parties send multiple messages back and forth; that is, the promise of sealed sender does not emph{compose} over a conversation of messages. Our attack is in the family of Statistical Disclosure Attacks (SDAs), and is made particularly effective by emph{delivery receipts} that inform the sender that a message has been successfully delivered, which are enabled by default on Signal. We show using theoretical and simulation-based models that Signal could link sealed sender users in as few as 5 messages
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@Hyolobrika
To use Signal at all you have to disclose your phone number and install the app on a smart phone. Tmk there's no way around that other than buying a burner phone+sim that you give away immediately afterwards. Consequently your location data and by virtue of that your real world identity is intrinsically linked to your conversations and social network. So, no thanks. Until that KYC bullshit is long in the rear view I see this as just yet another deep state honeypot.
To use Signal at all you have to disclose your phone number and install the app on a smart phone. Tmk there's no way around that other than buying a burner phone+sim that you give away immediately afterwards. Consequently your location data and by virtue of that your real world identity is intrinsically linked to your conversations and social network. So, no thanks. Until that KYC bullshit is long in the rear view I see this as just yet another deep state honeypot.
@toiletpaper I think I heard you can register using a desktop app called signal-cli
@toiletpaper
>Tmk there's no way around that other than buying a burner phone+sim that you give away immediately afterwards.
There are companies that allow you to rent a number temporarily for SMS verification. Alternatively you could get a virtual number.
I haven't used any of those services as I registered for Signal before cancelling my phone plan and taking out my SIM so they can't location track me.
>Consequently your location data and by virtue of that your real world identity is intrinsically linked to your conversations and social network.
How so? Signal doesn't have access to your location; the phone company does (if you have a SIM). The phone company doesn't have access to your conversations; Signal does (and only the metadata).
>Tmk there's no way around that other than buying a burner phone+sim that you give away immediately afterwards.
There are companies that allow you to rent a number temporarily for SMS verification. Alternatively you could get a virtual number.
I haven't used any of those services as I registered for Signal before cancelling my phone plan and taking out my SIM so they can't location track me.
>Consequently your location data and by virtue of that your real world identity is intrinsically linked to your conversations and social network.
How so? Signal doesn't have access to your location; the phone company does (if you have a SIM). The phone company doesn't have access to your conversations; Signal does (and only the metadata).
@Hyolobrika
"For registering you need a phone number where you can receive SMS or incoming calls."
https://github.com/AsamK/signal-cli
"For registering you need a phone number where you can receive SMS or incoming calls."
https://github.com/AsamK/signal-cli
@Hyolobrika
They still have your phone number on file and will release it and any associated information upon request from authorities. I believe they make such requests public somewhere on their website, but given they're mainly funded by CIA cutouts, I'm not sure I trust it/them regardless of any such security theatre. As to the phone companies that provide burner VOIP numbers, having tried those with a variety of 2FA systems, they're usually blocked. I'm sure there're ways around it, but based on the architecture and number of hoops needed to safeguard anonymity/privacy just to create an account, I instinctively distrust them and would not support their service by using it or encouraging others to do so.
On the other hand, I just tried out "reticulum" which is a mesh networking app (written in python) that has double-ratchet encryption baked in (cannot be circumvented), functions over I2P, a variety of wireless protocols (eg. LoRaWAN), ethernet, etc, including simultaneously/redundantly. You can setup private networks. It's application agnostic (you can write clients to do whatever you dream up). 100% p2p, with replication nodes for message forwarding. There's no user registration. In fact out of the box, all accounts are configured as "Anonymous" unless you give it a name explicitly. The only ID being a cryptographic hash that is trivially generated and disposable. The whole thing is FLOSS from top to bottom. Tmk atm there're no deep state ties. You can even host simple web-pages/applications on it using nomadnetwork, etc. There're already a variety of cross-platform clients for chatting (including a/v), webhosting, file sharing, etc, though mostly in BETA dev. It's inherently designed to handle low-bandwidth unstable connections.
Compared to Signal or any other nominally e2ee stuff out there (possibly excepting SimpleX ... tbd), it is light years ahead in architecture and ethos. Reminds me of what the internet was like back in the early days, except better secured. Albeit, perhaps a bit beyond the "gramma" user for now, but that just means she'll need her teenaged grandchild to spend the 10-30 mins to set it up for her initially and give a quick end-user howto. So, as far as Signal goes.... 👎👎 Why go backwards when there's already a much better way forward.
They still have your phone number on file and will release it and any associated information upon request from authorities. I believe they make such requests public somewhere on their website, but given they're mainly funded by CIA cutouts, I'm not sure I trust it/them regardless of any such security theatre. As to the phone companies that provide burner VOIP numbers, having tried those with a variety of 2FA systems, they're usually blocked. I'm sure there're ways around it, but based on the architecture and number of hoops needed to safeguard anonymity/privacy just to create an account, I instinctively distrust them and would not support their service by using it or encouraging others to do so.
On the other hand, I just tried out "reticulum" which is a mesh networking app (written in python) that has double-ratchet encryption baked in (cannot be circumvented), functions over I2P, a variety of wireless protocols (eg. LoRaWAN), ethernet, etc, including simultaneously/redundantly. You can setup private networks. It's application agnostic (you can write clients to do whatever you dream up). 100% p2p, with replication nodes for message forwarding. There's no user registration. In fact out of the box, all accounts are configured as "Anonymous" unless you give it a name explicitly. The only ID being a cryptographic hash that is trivially generated and disposable. The whole thing is FLOSS from top to bottom. Tmk atm there're no deep state ties. You can even host simple web-pages/applications on it using nomadnetwork, etc. There're already a variety of cross-platform clients for chatting (including a/v), webhosting, file sharing, etc, though mostly in BETA dev. It's inherently designed to handle low-bandwidth unstable connections.
Compared to Signal or any other nominally e2ee stuff out there (possibly excepting SimpleX ... tbd), it is light years ahead in architecture and ethos. Reminds me of what the internet was like back in the early days, except better secured. Albeit, perhaps a bit beyond the "gramma" user for now, but that just means she'll need her teenaged grandchild to spend the 10-30 mins to set it up for her initially and give a quick end-user howto. So, as far as Signal goes.... 👎👎 Why go backwards when there's already a much better way forward.
@toiletpaper Reticulum is cool. I don't think I would be able to get my grandma on it though. She won't even install Signal.
@toiletpaper BTW, I wasn't promoting the use of Signal. I was just sharing something I found interesting and informative.
@Hyolobrika
User adoption is always the main pain point of stuff like this, but I strongly suspect that will change pretty fast once people (especially libertarian types) start to see the wide array of use-cases. Give it time. It's still beta, so probably will need a little time to mature, but in my view it's the way to go.
I wrote up a little quick-start guide for anyone using linux to set it up to work over i2p. https://pastebin.com/u8aPtt0q
User adoption is always the main pain point of stuff like this, but I strongly suspect that will change pretty fast once people (especially libertarian types) start to see the wide array of use-cases. Give it time. It's still beta, so probably will need a little time to mature, but in my view it's the way to go.
I wrote up a little quick-start guide for anyone using linux to set it up to work over i2p. https://pastebin.com/u8aPtt0q
@toiletpaper my grandmother is not a libertarian type. No one in my family is apart from maybe me (and even I don't care about economic liberties, just civil ones)
@Hyolobrika
Btw, on the "gramma" factor... when I was first starting out my professional career in IT the ISP I worked for had a gramma that we would do house-calls for to provide tech support. She was using an i286 machine with DOS to connect to our mail server via Kermit and check her email using `pine`. For her it was just a fancy type-writer, and she had very few issues and zero complaints. So, it really depends on the gramma concerned.
Btw, on the "gramma" factor... when I was first starting out my professional career in IT the ISP I worked for had a gramma that we would do house-calls for to provide tech support. She was using an i286 machine with DOS to connect to our mail server via Kermit and check her email using `pine`. For her it was just a fancy type-writer, and she had very few issues and zero complaints. So, it really depends on the gramma concerned.
@toiletpaper my grandma uses a windows laptop and an android phone, barely
@Hyolobrika
So are many of the "freedom fighters" I know. They won't use anything unless the sheeple are already on the bandwagon, even when I explain the security caveats and political/economic implications involving their civil liberties. Drives me fucking nuts.
So are many of the "freedom fighters" I know. They won't use anything unless the sheeple are already on the bandwagon, even when I explain the security caveats and political/economic implications involving their civil liberties. Drives me fucking nuts.
@toiletpaper she is perfectly happy reading her newspaper, watching TV, checking her email, making calls, using WhatsApp to contact people. She doesn't want to change anything.
@toiletpaper I mean network effects are real. There's not much point in using a communications technology if you can't communicate with anyone using it
@toiletpaper @Hyolobrika pine connected to a NeXT machine is how I did my first email
@Hyolobrika
True that. There's also no point in using encrypted communications if your metadata gives up all the info needed to jackboot you to death anyway. Personally I don't mind being the bleeding edge early adopter for stuff that's actually legit, even if I'm basically alone in doing it. Someone's gotta push the envelop forward and be ready to onboard people once they manage to pull their heads from their asses.
True that. There's also no point in using encrypted communications if your metadata gives up all the info needed to jackboot you to death anyway. Personally I don't mind being the bleeding edge early adopter for stuff that's actually legit, even if I'm basically alone in doing it. Someone's gotta push the envelop forward and be ready to onboard people once they manage to pull their heads from their asses.
@sun @Hyolobrika
Same, except OpenBSD instead of NeXT. I self-hosted it for years using an i286 sitting on top of my refrigerator, until I got tired of recompiling the kernel every other day when a security patch was released. But in spite of all the work involved, I regret ever using a 3rd party. I should have stuck with self-hosting, which I do now again for that reason. Mind you, there's almost no one to talk with via email who isn't using gmail or the like these days anyway, so almost defeats the purpose.
Same, except OpenBSD instead of NeXT. I self-hosted it for years using an i286 sitting on top of my refrigerator, until I got tired of recompiling the kernel every other day when a security patch was released. But in spite of all the work involved, I regret ever using a 3rd party. I should have stuck with self-hosting, which I do now again for that reason. Mind you, there's almost no one to talk with via email who isn't using gmail or the like these days anyway, so almost defeats the purpose.