Neo-paganism and more or less all other forms of pagan reconstruction consistently fail on the same point. Projecting Christian theological ideas onto pre-Christian pagan religion. "Personal relationship to the gods", a lack of transactionalism, views on sacrifice and a lack of taking oaths seriously are the most egregious examples.
It's equal parts astounding and hilarious how these guys proclaiming to RETVRN to the ancient traditions of their ancestors consistently self own in that manner.
It's almost as if two thousand years of Christianity has fundamentally reshaped the spiritual ideals and conceptions of Western man to find the pagan weltanschaung (look at the pajeet if you want to see a pagan weltanschaung in action) fundamentally alien and all their attempts at RETVRNing stand in the shadow of the Cross no matter what they do.
It's equal parts astounding and hilarious how these guys proclaiming to RETVRN to the ancient traditions of their ancestors consistently self own in that manner.
It's almost as if two thousand years of Christianity has fundamentally reshaped the spiritual ideals and conceptions of Western man to find the pagan weltanschaung (look at the pajeet if you want to see a pagan weltanschaung in action) fundamentally alien and all their attempts at RETVRNing stand in the shadow of the Cross no matter what they do.
@Umlaut What's often forgotten as well is that a lot of classical philosophy was contrary to the pagan worldview, it's why Socrates was forced to kill himself. Using Plato to argue for a RETVRN to paganism is contrary to these philosophical ideas that often ran afoul and questioned the pagan framework at the time.
Maybe nugger will grossly misread it and go on and explain the community relationship aspect of pagan ritual again. He's done to me once or twice.
They're marinated so deep in Christian thought and culture that it's like asking a fish what water is.
@Umlaut >look at the pajeet if you want to see a pagan weltanschaung
Even they have a type of monotheism and incarnation doctrine once you progress past the street shitter tier of practice because paganism doesn't work. You can have these lower gods but only under the purview of larger, more unified principalities.
And even before Christianity, the Greek gods were considered subservient to more fundamental principles, which is what the Greek Academy was debating over. The primitive paganism was already gone, but they don't seem to want to bring that back. The philosophers that Neopagans do opt for aren't the Byzantine Neoplatonists or their predecessors, it's always Nietzsche and Evola, and maybe Guenon. No unified metaphysic to bring structure to the thing, the entire ideology is centered around hating Christianity.
@DrRyanSkelton @Umlaut The funny thing is, this pattern is new to the West, but in China and Japan, we've already seen this pattern.
Confucians tried to eradicate Buddhism because it was foreign, but Buddhism was so integrated into all of Chinese thought that the Neo-Confucians were unconsciously Buddhist in everything they affirmed, just in a more secular skin.
Similar pattern in Japan's Meiji period. They tried to replace their authentic spiritual tradition with a Cult of the Emperor because their Neo-Confucians prioritized ethnic purity alone, and it threw them into a losing war against China and the USA.
Confucians tried to eradicate Buddhism because it was foreign, but Buddhism was so integrated into all of Chinese thought that the Neo-Confucians were unconsciously Buddhist in everything they affirmed, just in a more secular skin.
Similar pattern in Japan's Meiji period. They tried to replace their authentic spiritual tradition with a Cult of the Emperor because their Neo-Confucians prioritized ethnic purity alone, and it threw them into a losing war against China and the USA.
@Umlaut transactionalism is a bugaboo you can call anything a transaction because you do something to have an effect
idk if i have it but there is an example of rus merchants sacrificing to an oak with a odin idol surrounded by minature odin idols, they would give a sacrifice of meat pinned on branches or stakes, give prayers, too the main idol, before going out for buissness
if it didnt go well theyd do the same for the main and the small
and if that didnt work theyd do a further more extreme thing(ive forgotten)
mightve been bowing as well
the crows and feral dogs would eat the offering, this was not supposed to be stopped but no opinion was offered as to any reason
it was a byzantine source
this is a toltal failiur of any reliable transaction it is ritual superstition, merely giving for a percentage chance of a positive buff if in merchantry, very similar to japanese shrine vistors both buddhist and shinto, and somewhat but not entirely different to catholic holy place visiting(offerings are monetary)
christianity also in practice is a great deal about doctrine and things in the bible being true not a broad spirituality, this doesnt feature much in neo paganry except the worst attempts at churches, they seem to be generally anti doctrinal but may appeal to historical practices but vaguely and wishwashy but romans did that to
personal relationship with god is abit weird but if you compare to mystery cults it might be more apt(though im unsure), is that even christian that always sounds very hippy esque to me(maybe it varirs by sects)
or there are supposed to be personal and house gods where that phrase might be more apt
idk if i have it but there is an example of rus merchants sacrificing to an oak with a odin idol surrounded by minature odin idols, they would give a sacrifice of meat pinned on branches or stakes, give prayers, too the main idol, before going out for buissness
if it didnt go well theyd do the same for the main and the small
and if that didnt work theyd do a further more extreme thing(ive forgotten)
mightve been bowing as well
the crows and feral dogs would eat the offering, this was not supposed to be stopped but no opinion was offered as to any reason
it was a byzantine source
this is a toltal failiur of any reliable transaction it is ritual superstition, merely giving for a percentage chance of a positive buff if in merchantry, very similar to japanese shrine vistors both buddhist and shinto, and somewhat but not entirely different to catholic holy place visiting(offerings are monetary)
christianity also in practice is a great deal about doctrine and things in the bible being true not a broad spirituality, this doesnt feature much in neo paganry except the worst attempts at churches, they seem to be generally anti doctrinal but may appeal to historical practices but vaguely and wishwashy but romans did that to
personal relationship with god is abit weird but if you compare to mystery cults it might be more apt(though im unsure), is that even christian that always sounds very hippy esque to me(maybe it varirs by sects)
or there are supposed to be personal and house gods where that phrase might be more apt
@Umlaut it also should be noted that norse and slavic paganry is arian christian influenced already so there should expected to be some similarity, they really didnt care whether something was christian
i dont see a reason why a neopagan should care either
i dont see a reason why a neopagan should care either
@gav @Umlaut If anything, it might be the other way around. The germanic tribes who conquered Rome usually portrayed Jesus with a sword and on horseback, while the Romans usually portrayed him as a martyr or a fisherman. It's likely that the missionaries sent to convert them picked up what was popular and exaggerated those attributes, but the later popes smacked it down with anti-Arianism. The Roman catholic popes seemed to be trying to maintain the Roman empire politically in the face of military defeat.
@PoalackJokes88 @Umlaut in some ways yes they did this, originally in the saxon bible the apostles were christs thanes
but originally in depictiins odin was like that warrrior deoiction he had two eyes and was sldepicted with animals similar to the horned god
but edda odin is more priestly and strange, he sacrifices himself to himself on the tree e.g. kesus in the cross, and odin thor fits god christ with thor being both a warrior and having pharmacology function(he strikes out elfs that afflict the body) and the association with the sea, there also the cross amulet hammer amulet and axe of perun amulet
but originally in depictiins odin was like that warrrior deoiction he had two eyes and was sldepicted with animals similar to the horned god
but edda odin is more priestly and strange, he sacrifices himself to himself on the tree e.g. kesus in the cross, and odin thor fits god christ with thor being both a warrior and having pharmacology function(he strikes out elfs that afflict the body) and the association with the sea, there also the cross amulet hammer amulet and axe of perun amulet
@gav @Umlaut There definitely seems to be some cross-pollination going on. Odin wasn't always even the primary one, it seemed like earlier Tyr was the most important and it drifted over to Odin / Thor. But it's always going to be speculative because it was only ever written down by a Christian monk, or talked about by an outsider Roman.
@PoalackJokes88 @Umlaut snorri was honest in most places, there are also scaldic poetry and stone carving prayers and such that do exist, things just change and mutate
theres not really anything to indicate tyr is original its just becausevits cognate with zeus, speculations exist that its just a divided title and that hes maybe ullr or odin
theres not really anything to indicate tyr is original its just becausevits cognate with zeus, speculations exist that its just a divided title and that hes maybe ullr or odin
@Umlaut Well, mate, looks like you've finally got enough coal under this thread to get through the winter.
@gav @Umlaut Tacitus described them as worshipping Hercules, Mercury, and Mars, which sound like Thor, Odin or Loki, and Tyr. And I bet Snorri would be honest in most places, but the things he would leave out could be important, like if it's politically sensitive. But since we don't have any other major sources, we kind of have to go with it. Since pagans weren't united under 1 strict doctrine, there might be pretty big variances. What the Teutons in Germany during Tacitus' time practiced might have differed from what the Swedes in Rus practiced or the Norse in Iceland practiced.
@PoalackJokes88 @Umlaut mecury vs mars is a bit erratic actually both are used for odin, its also really unclear whether they are celts or whether that even is a meaningful difference
im sure they were very different but strangely as with the celts they did have a religious center, south of paris in the centerish of gaul for celts, and an island in the baltic for the germanics the king of norway(iirc) had to do rituals there
im sure they were very different but strangely as with the celts they did have a religious center, south of paris in the centerish of gaul for celts, and an island in the baltic for the germanics the king of norway(iirc) had to do rituals there
@Umlaut Jeetery is bad because jeets, just like Christian niggers are bad, That's really it, Regardless of faith the Aryan is the supreme race simple 'as.
@Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @Umlaut Christian niggers are way better than Muslim niggers.
@MK2boogaloo @Umlaut A nigger is a nigger at days end, while there is a SLIGHT improvement there (though this is mainly a historical thing), The same would go for Indian Pajeets being slightly better then the Pakistani pajeets, That just means Islam is fucking AIDS and again, a nigger is still a nigger, and a jeet still a jeet.
@Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @Umlaut we can change them for the better, there's a thing called evolution of mind for people. If you guide them in a good way, they can evolve from their racial structure. It's like Tibetans adapting to living in high altitude so they have better lungs compared to most people.
@MK2boogaloo @Umlaut We've given those bastards plenty, and they still yet spit on us, so fuck 'em, lock them in Africa and never touch them again unless we need resources or the like.
@Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @Umlaut the main reason for the rebellion and wars in Africa is the kikes. They're okay with white people controlling the government in some degrees. Either way, what we need is to Christianize them and make sure the Pagan element is gone.
@MK2boogaloo @Umlaut They're a lost fucking cause on both respects, I could give a damn if they worship Baphomet himself, as long as they leave my people alone, they've done enough and we've given them enough, they serve us no benefit, TO ME the ultimate good is the good of my own, I'm willing to work with other races (mainly Asians, who I'd argue are close to our own greatness), but nogs, fuck no.
@Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @Umlaut well that's the thing, this world doesn't work like that. Leaving Africa alone gives a chance for something worse to take place there, isolationism never really works out in this time. Even North Korea needs to trade with his neighbors. I don't mean to tell people to invest trillions of dollars into that place, hell no, rather we should let Christian organizations to do their work there. Obviously we need something that is not poisoned with our current culture.
@MK2boogaloo @Umlaut I'm not an isolationist, I just don't care about what happens to nogs or jeets especially, I don't care what the niggers believe, so long as they aren't harming me or my allies they can do and think what they may in their own land.
@Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @Umlaut that's bad, like I said the world doesn't move like that. When you leave a continent alone, another power would use it to their own conveniences. That would be a threat, which you can't just ignore.
I'd argue we should just nuke India 100x to clean the place from pajeets. But Africa on the other hand, that place is beaming with cool stuff. The only threats that I can see are: 1. Islam
2. Paganism
3. Liberalism
If we can clear those out, the place would be good for people to travel to. Just imagine another Safari in Africa, where you could see all the exotic places, animals, and how people live there.
I'd argue we should just nuke India 100x to clean the place from pajeets. But Africa on the other hand, that place is beaming with cool stuff. The only threats that I can see are: 1. Islam
2. Paganism
3. Liberalism
If we can clear those out, the place would be good for people to travel to. Just imagine another Safari in Africa, where you could see all the exotic places, animals, and how people live there.
It's incredible they keep getting assmad over the same post over and over again just slightly reworded.
I know nothing about this but this is in my collection, seems related.
@Umlaut @ColPeatGuano UHHH MAYBE LATER IM NOT FEELING ANY OF THE USUAL HELLTHREAD ENTHUSIASM ANYMORE
OTHERWISE YEAH, UNITED METHODIST CHURCH OF THOR
OTHERWISE YEAH, UNITED METHODIST CHURCH OF THOR
Hey I think I've seen Boomerman post images of their priests from time to time
@Umlaut Well the old Gods are actually real and not Jewish lies so they do have that going for them. Like you niggers think the Jews are lying about everything but telling the truth about the creation of the universe and who God is. Uh yeah no thanks I'll take my chances with the old ways. I mean at least the Pagans got it right about the Earth being round because it is made out of the skull of a giant that Odin killed, not some flat earth firmament retard shit.
@LorgarAurelian1488 @Umlaut The old ways died a millennia ago. What you call the old ways is a modern invention with no roots in anything.
@AlbinoMutant @Umlaut The old gods are real, they aren't dead, and you can speak with them directly. No need for old books written by dead Jews telling you what their volcano giant told them.
@PoalackJokes88 @gav @Umlaut IIRC he was copying off another source, so might be where the weird Christianized changes like Hel invading which makes no sense come from.
@Witch_Hunter_Siegfired @MK2boogaloo @Umlaut Pretty much. luckily I do not have to police my kids like some Asian mom to make sure they grow up well. They are likely to kick ass by default, same as my siblings and I have.