@Hyolobrika She has been making the rounds these past few months. Fair to say she's a great speaker.
@thatbrickster A lot of the things she complains about (not the violence obviously) are Muslims exercising their freedom of speech though, which is inconsistent.
Either she needs to figure out a way to let them say what they want without "subverting Western society", or she needs to drop her advocacy of free speech.
Or am I missing something?
Either she needs to figure out a way to let them say what they want without "subverting Western society", or she needs to drop her advocacy of free speech.
Or am I missing something?
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@Hyolobrika @thatbrickster
She's putting Christinanity on a pedestal though. She thinks the enlightenment was a product of Christinanity in denial of the fact that it was actually the revival of classical Paganism and the vast diversity of thought and belief intrinsic to it which inspired the enlightenment, etc. The USA's foundations are thoroughly Pagan. One need only look to the giant statue of Libertas in NY harbour and the pantheon of Roman Gods on the ceiling of the Capital building. Not to mention the statements of the founding fathers themselves.
She's putting Christinanity on a pedestal though. She thinks the enlightenment was a product of Christinanity in denial of the fact that it was actually the revival of classical Paganism and the vast diversity of thought and belief intrinsic to it which inspired the enlightenment, etc. The USA's foundations are thoroughly Pagan. One need only look to the giant statue of Libertas in NY harbour and the pantheon of Roman Gods on the ceiling of the Capital building. Not to mention the statements of the founding fathers themselves.
I believe the enlightenment started in Europe before the US was founded, didn't it?
>Not to mention the statements of the founding fathers themselves.
Which statements are you referring to?
>Not to mention the statements of the founding fathers themselves.
Which statements are you referring to?
@Hyolobrika @thatbrickster
> I believe the enlightenment started in Europe before the US was founded, didn't it?
Yes, but the USA was a product of that pursuit and evolution of enlightenment values, particularly in the form of classical liberalism.
> Which statements are you referring to?
There are quite a few to choose from, but this is a fairly good example.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-01-02-0222-0007
> I believe the enlightenment started in Europe before the US was founded, didn't it?
Yes, but the USA was a product of that pursuit and evolution of enlightenment values, particularly in the form of classical liberalism.
> Which statements are you referring to?
There are quite a few to choose from, but this is a fairly good example.
https://founders.archives.gov/documents/Jefferson/01-01-02-0222-0007
She thinks the enlightenment was a product of Christinanity in denial of the fact that it was actually the revival of classical Paganism and the vast diversity of thought and belief intrinsic to it which inspired the enlightenment, etc.
There are a lot of theories on that, it seems. David Graeber and Wengrow believed that it resulted from a native American critique of European culture.
My aunt got me his book on it last Christmas (or Yule if you prefer ;).
@Hyolobrika @thatbrickster @toiletpaper but you could make the argument the only reason the knowledge of the roman times was maintained was because of dark age monastic orders and an enlightenment based on past material couldnt have occurred with out their constant reproductions of text.
And a lot of that material came from translations of Arabic translations by Muslims of philosophical texts written in Ancient Greek, which brings us full circle.
@Hyolobrika @thatbrickster
> There are a lot of theories on that, it seems.
Sure are! No one (not even me) seems able to approach the topic without some degree of confirmation bias and cherry picking.
> David Graeber and Wengrow believed that it resulted from a native American critique of European culture.
Interesting. I'll check out that book. Off hand though it reminds me of this...
https://youtu.be/L1V5VeRdMnI
https://www.congress.gov/bill/100th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/331
> There are a lot of theories on that, it seems.
Sure are! No one (not even me) seems able to approach the topic without some degree of confirmation bias and cherry picking.
> David Graeber and Wengrow believed that it resulted from a native American critique of European culture.
Interesting. I'll check out that book. Off hand though it reminds me of this...
https://youtu.be/L1V5VeRdMnI
https://www.congress.gov/bill/100th-congress/house-concurrent-resolution/331
@eemmaa @thatbrickster @Hyolobrika
They also chose to continue copying that material because it brought ideas to the table which were lacking within the Abrahamic canon of literature. In fact most of the theology of Judeo-Christinanity and Islame was and is wholesale plagiarism of Hermeticism and Platonism, and had to be contorted in order to backwards rationalise and justify those scriptures. Those two Pagan religious traditions kept cropping up again and again throughout the Christian cultures, with many of the church figures, both orthodox and heretical alike from day one to present espousing them verbatim by name (eg. Renaissance, Enlightenment, NeoClassical, etc). The Roman republic upon which the USA's government was partly modelled, was Pagan. The laws and jurisprudence, Pagan. Etc.
They also chose to continue copying that material because it brought ideas to the table which were lacking within the Abrahamic canon of literature. In fact most of the theology of Judeo-Christinanity and Islame was and is wholesale plagiarism of Hermeticism and Platonism, and had to be contorted in order to backwards rationalise and justify those scriptures. Those two Pagan religious traditions kept cropping up again and again throughout the Christian cultures, with many of the church figures, both orthodox and heretical alike from day one to present espousing them verbatim by name (eg. Renaissance, Enlightenment, NeoClassical, etc). The Roman republic upon which the USA's government was partly modelled, was Pagan. The laws and jurisprudence, Pagan. Etc.
@eemmaa @thatbrickster @Hyolobrika
Yep. That's not limited to a religion, nor even to the human species. But for what it's worth, here's what Plato had to say about it.
https://classics.mit.edu/Plato/symposium.html
Yep. That's not limited to a religion, nor even to the human species. But for what it's worth, here's what Plato had to say about it.
https://classics.mit.edu/Plato/symposium.html