National Socialist i dont understand why people call nazies right wing
I agree. It's mostly semantics. It seems to me that the right/left spectrum tends to wrap around like a circle once you get to the extreme margins, such that for all practical purposes there's really no difference.
That is, of course, nonsense. There are strong philosophical differences that get muddled by the desire to be uncontroversial, so whatever side is losing tends to become more like whatever side is winning.
Proof: conservatives shifting Left over the past eighty years, and recently, Biden and Harris adopting about half of Trump's programs.
However, the Nazis are a Right-Left hybird: nationalist (Right) socialism (Left).
As the saying goes, when the boot is stomping on your neck, does it really make a difference if it's the right boot or the left boot?
We have to ask:
1. Is the boot stomping on our necks? I see voters making bad decisions; we are the boot.
2. Does it make a difference? Yes, because Right-wing societies can heal while Left-wing societies degenerate further.
In my mind this is really a question of, what's the difference between fascism and communism. My feeling is that there effectively is none. They both have a variety of different nuances of ideology and application, but as far as nation-states which have adopted one or the other, the levels of oppression of dissenters, control of the economy, etc, etc, is for all intents and purposes identical.
Also people in 'Murica have no issue unironcally calling Putin a fascist while they demand communism in their own nation. Derp! I literally just had someone do that yesterday in relation to a discussion about Ukraine. No joke!
Second paragraph affirms that there are differences between fascism and communism. The lolberts refer to both as extreme Statism and the point is (a) not monarchies (b) giant bureaucracy.
However, while fascism was clearly influenced by Communism, there are major differences... fascism aims to preserve the capitalist economy but bring it under control of the state, where Communists want to replace it with central control.
Free Market economy yeah how did that work out when buying Game stock bonds
Ow wait the Government stopped you from buying those
i prefer my own made up shit
Thank you very much
As far as Putin, it seems the conservatives are fooled into thinking he's a conservative, and the Leftists are fooled into thinking he's a fascist.
I think he's a Maoist, ironically. He brought more free markets into the old Soviet system and rebooted it.
That makes his country a "mixed economy" like (as you note) every country in the West.
> Free Market economy...
> the Government stopped you...
Then it wasn't a free market, was it.
geopol
geopol, nazi/antifa discourse
geopol, nazi/antifa discourse
You have to remember Ukrainian history. In the depths of the Holodomor, it was german panzers rolling east to the russian front that liberated them from certain horrible death under the heel of the soviets. That is still in living memory, and many younger ukrainians grew up hearing about it from their parents and grandparents. A lot of ukrainians genuinely idolize the nazis.
I don't think that is really putin's justification for invading, I think that was just a troll.
>Putin was trolling about the Nazis
So we have powerful politicians capable of great violence trolling about the justifications for that violence? Fucking great.
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@Hyolobrika
> But they have a Jewish president
Not everyone being labelled a Nazi, even those accepting it and adopting swastikas hates the Jews, every group picks their own target as enemy. E.g. this crowd in US often hates black people, but e.g. here in Russia those who love swastikas — they don't care about them, they don't see them much here.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
@Hyolobrika
I mean they do hate "black people" — but these people have nothing to do with Africans, AFAIR Hitler himself wasn't hostile towards those, it's just a US thing 🤷
So it's to each their own — in each country these groups pick their own "outsiders", e.g. I can imagine far-right groups in Poland being tolerant towards Jews, but not Gypsies or Arabs.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
@Hyolobrika
And with Ukraine in particular — sure, right-wing groups always existed, there are those openly adopting swastikas fighting on Russian side, despite the state adopting the whole WW2 rhetoric and claiming fighting Nazis — don't look for consistency here 😩
Some were extremely hostile towards Russians, but these groups were hardly as numerous as Russian state propaganda had been putting it, and they were never influencing the state politics.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
@Hyolobrika
So yeah, lots of Russians have been played here, the reason — they've never been in Ukraine. I've been in Kyiv several times and I was always treated in a friendly manned, at times better than I could be in Moscow even, by random people who never knew me. I knew that people who are hostile do exist — they do everywhere, but I also knew that this is far from common and I was never buying the Nazi thing.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
@Hyolobrika
But the worst part — with Pootin having done this, in a way he confirmed that those hating Russian had been right the entire time, and of course I expect this to get worse, younger Ukrainians would naturally be more hostile, unlikely to treat Russians in a friendly manner any time soon.
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
@Hyolobrika
> Who do Ukrainian (and Russian) neo-Nazis hate?
At this point — mostly each other 😅
> What does "black people" mean then.
That is quite funny actually! In Russia those coming from the broader Caucasus region are being called black, so e.g. in US on pedestrian level Caucasian means white, but in Russia it means black 🤣
@nicholas @softwarepagan @toiletpaper @lizzy
But they have a Jewish president. So it can't be that bad.
I mean, I guess that depends on your definition of "that bad" 🤷
The unite the right rally in Charlottesville couldn't muster 200 tiki touch wielders from across the entire us.
Meanwhile in Ukraine the explicitly white nationalist Svoboda party peeked at 10 and change % of the vote in 2012 winning dozens of seats in their parliament. That's not an electoral majority able to veto a presidential candidate, but neither is it vanishingly small and politically insignificant like in the us.
NeoNazis were literally conducting an ethnic cleansing in the eastern half of the country for 8 years straight. And they controlled the government and military that entire time, on behalf of the USA for the most part. Ironically it was largely bought and paid for by an Israeli oligarch (Ihor Kolomoisky), who also happened to be owner of Burisma and a business partner of the Biden family. But the situation goes back 20 years with NATO conducting 2 separate coup d'etats against the democratically elected government in Ukraine (orange revolution in 2004 and maiden in 2014). It was all over the news until Putin finally accepted the pleas of the constitutionally independent regions of Donetsk and Luhansk to intervene and help them defend themselves. Then suddenly all that news has been memory holed, while the same organisations who were previously reporting on it all did an about face and started bleating incessantly about "Russian invasion" and "Russian misinformation", etc.