General thoughts:
Obviously a miscarriage of justice. I’m a bit worried about #MAGA violence and of course not happy that #Trump will likely be unjustly jailed. However, there is a huge chance that this boost’s #Trump’s support and causes many more people to vote for him, which is wonderful news provided that he survives that long.
RT: https://social.teci.world/objects/dea634fb-a66e-4422-bf80-6f04885ffbe4
I hope the jurors are under #SecretService protection.
when you disenfranchise people you break the contract that holds back the actual civil war that elections are proxies of.
The Deep State just proved everything he said about them.
The US just lost major international status.
This empowers dictators everywhere and pushes us much closer to #WW3.
Jailing the top political candidate before elections is not the wiser decision ever. Not even Putin would dare to do that.
@waltercool @amerika@annihilation.social @realcaseyrollins
Putin murders his political opponents Try reading the news once in a while.
You say this like you expect #Trump to survive a prison sentence lol
Let's be honest, most would treat this particular case as mere spurious accusations if it wasn't #Trump who was on the stand. Hatred of #Trump has truly blinded the #BlueAnon crowd.
@realcaseyrollins Michael Cohen was tried and convicted for his role in the exact same crimes for which Trump was just convicted.
Trump was even named a coconspirator in that case, as "Individual 1." If he hadn't been President at the time, he might have been on trial alongside Cohen.
Sounds like a criminal offence to me. or 34 offences, to be precise 😉
“The defendant, Donald J. Trump, is guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records in the first degree to conceal a scheme to corrupt the 2016 election.”
#AlvinBragg
@realcaseyrollins Trump declined to take the stand and defend himself…
@Captain_Jack_Sparrow
@realcaseyrollins one thing that so many Trump supporters overlook is that Trump has a ceiling where other voters will refuse to vote for him under any circumstances.
They look at trend lines but don’t notice that ceiling. At some point the pool of potential Trump voters will be exhausted and his support can grow no higher.
I’d say that applies here. I don’t think many more will vote for him over this, because folks who are open to the possibility had already bought into it.
And instead trump told his maga cult followers that he had been silenced, because he is a lying, whining little bitch
Trump is the school bully who plays the victim as soon as people stand up to him.
I hope he gets charged for Inciting Violence, his baseless acusations of a rigged trial is putting people lives at risk.
After Trump’s guilty verdict, threats and attempts to dox Trump jurors proliferate online
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/31/tech/threats-doxxing-trump-jurors/index.html
> I hope he gets charged for Inciting Violence
You guys would probably try to charge him for breathing too 😂
Nah, I'd just apply to same rules to him as anyone else, and anyone else would have been put in jail for contempt of court by now.
@Captain_Jack_Sparrow @volkris That’s not true and you know it, deep down.
Deep down you know it's true
@Captain_Jack_Sparrow @volkris If you say so buddy.
Keep the tin foil hat! You’ll need it.
trump won't be sent to prison for the charges, but he could go to prison for breaking the conditions of probation, which he had already started to do, because baby trump thinks he is above the law and can do whatever he wants.
Lol, coming from a trump cultist!!
You even have a little cross on your profile, cos, you know, trump is the second coming and all that...
#Trump cultist? I dislike the majority of the #MAGA movement, you don't even know what you're talking about 😂 which TBF is more hilarious than it is surprising
Some people are Christians, and they put crosses on their profiles sometimes.
@realcaseyrollins can you prove your case with anything other than appeals to deep down knowledge?
Why would I think that any information would change your mind?
@realcaseyrollins does that mean no, you don’t have anything solid to base your perspective on?
@Captain_Jack_Sparrow
CaseyRollins idolises a man who, as president, told people to inject themselves with bleach in order to cure themselves of covid. I wouldn't hold out too much hope of any "information" he might have to offer.
Coronavirus: Outcry after Trump suggests injecting disinfectant as treatment
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52407177
Why are you spreading a claim about #Trump that is mostly false?
https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/07/13/fact-check-did-trump-tell-people-to-drink-bleach-to-kill-coronavirus/113754708/
I also find it funny that people on #Lemmy like to say I idolize #Trump when I've repeatedly critiqued both him and #MAGA and still don't think he should be the #GOP nominee 🤭 Y'all are cute!
Hating Trump for nominating Fauci, promoting lockdowns, and creating the shot is based though.
Aren't we talking to people who LOVE #Fauci though? That he saved countless lives and held the #USA from the brink of disaster?
Not going to lie, #Fauci likely saved a lot of lives, but his guidance and lack of transparency endangered others too. The last thing people in his position should be doing is endangering or misleading people.
Also, #Trump didn't create the #mRNA vaccines, his #OperationWarpSpeed provided additional funding and removed guardrails for vaccine development IIRC. I don't like that standards were lowered to rush out the vaccines, but it isn't bad that it exists so long as it's optional.
I mean, it's true though. However, would some less corrupt/competent have saved more lives than #Fauci? Without a doubt.
He did somewhat a bit worse than the bare minimum, which is a lot different than doing nothing but harm.
It would for sure. I haven't seen much evidence that #Fauci created or fostered the creation of #COVID19 yet though.
Caused? No.
It's been awhile but I thought that #COVID19 is a mutation of an existing #SARSCOV virus that some scientists in #China were experimenting with in a lab, and it somehow escaped. I don't know if the bat came into play with how it spread but it was one animal they ran the experiments on.
@realcaseyrollins I’d go a different way with that.
Yes, standards were temporarily lowered, but that’s because they were too high in the first place, and we need to reevaluate those standards, as Operation Warp Speed laid bare to see the costs of getting the balance between safety and progress wrong.
@Captain_Jack_Sparrow @cjd
@cjd exactly.
So many Trump critics lash onto easily debunkable claims when there’s plenty wrong that the guy DID do.
Why make things up?
Boot
Lickers
and so they have to make up some dumb shit like something he didn't say or some mistake he made on his taxes.
@cjd that’s honestly not the worst take.
So many people really don’t fault for abusing power, as they want to see it abused in a different way.
I suppose making things up is one way around that.
@Captain_Jack_Sparrow @realcaseyrollins
@realcaseyrollins @Captain_Jack_Sparrow @cjd @volkris #COVID
sort of close. But no banana.
1) The virus did cone from hybridization and mutation in the wild in bats in southern china.
2) There was no lab leak. Though the safety of the lab could have been better, that did not come into play.
3) Scientists didn't create the virus or the changes in it, They did experiments involving many viruses to determine how close they were to being extremely dangerous. That played no roll in SARS-CoV-2
@volkris @Captain_Jack_Sparrow @cjd That also is probably true to a point, but let’s not pretend that #Trump made this policy change for scientifically sound reasons.
@cjd @samohTmaS @Captain_Jack_Sparrow @volkris He’s not even close, he owes me bananas.
@volkris @cjd @realcaseyrollins
Firstly I didn't make it up Trump suggests injecting disinfectant into the body to kill covid, during a WH press briefing
Trump: "Right. And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning"
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-disinfectants-covid-19/
Secondly I despise trump primarily for abusing his power, prompting racial hated and corruption. He is a fascist.
@volkris @cjd @realcaseyrollins
"Republicans who, after years of peddling a dangerous political Big Lie, now insist on still hawking an equally dangerous medical Big Lie whose "runaway political rhetoric" turns the much-respected, life-saving Dr. Fauci into "a comic-book super villain." This, never mind their real-life villain who's long championed revenge - "I love getting even when I get screwed by someone" - who told Americans during COVID to inject bleach"
https://www.commondreams.org/further/an-unusual-performance-facts-472-clowns-0
@Captain_Jack_Sparrow @volkris @cjd So you’re saying that #Trump didn’t say these words after the fact:
“It wouldn’t be through injections, almost a cleaning and sterilization of an area. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn’t work, but it certainly has a big effect if it’s on a stationary object.”
@realcaseyrollins @Captain_Jack_Sparrow @cjd @volkris Your grasp on reality seems tenuous at best. You need a complete and deep psychological interaction, or cleansing.
@karamazov1879 @realcaseyrollins @cjd@pkteerium.xyz @volkris
Looks like Casey and @CJD have both been fed on too much Qanon bullshit.
Fauci likely saved many very old folks with a very short remaining lifespan at the expense of tens of thousands of people who would've had long lives ahead of them if only they were able to receive routine care and screenings, and tens of thousands more who would not have died deaths of despair absent the draconian restrictions on work and social life.
@realcaseyrollins @cjd @volkris
He backtracked soon after he suggested it, someone probably advised him to do so.
@Captain_Jack_Sparrow @cjd @volkris He was wrong and corrected himself, never mind him immediately saying that medical professionals would need to check his proposal to make sure that it was feasible.
But of course, there’s nothing he could have said or done after that that would have satisfied you. Everything he does and says is bad and wrong and dangerous and scawie, he’s not ever allowed to get anything wrong even if he apologizes and corrects himself.
I think I’m done with this convo, as I try to avoid doing political debates with bad faith actors.
@cjd @volkris @realcaseyrollins
You're literally making dumb shit up about Fauci, saying he should be locked up.
His job was to save lives, that's what he did.
Why are trump cultists and antivaxxers so hellbent on persecuting Fauci?
You're probably arguing with some strawman that Steve Colbert told you to argue with.
If I were king, Fauci would be publicly executed.
Why?
Because if I make you the health minister, and then there's a pandemic, you dig the fucking hole, that's why.
You boomers - and I'm guessing you're a boomer - have NEVER made a politician face consequences for their mistakes (or their treason, depending on what you want to believe).
Every two years you go to the voting booth to re-elect the same senators who have been consistently plowing America into the ground ever since you graduated highschool - and at some level you know it. But they keep saying "this time it'll be different" and you keep believing them.
Jefferson said the government you elect is the government you deserve.
Look at the picture on the left, you voted for this. How do you think that ends?
@cjd @volkris @realcaseyrollins
"In over a year of frantic scavenging on the taxpayers' dime - including seeking access to Fauci's personal email and phone records - Repubs haven't found "a shred of evidence to substantiate these extreme allegations." At the same time, while using Fauci as a scapegoat for Trump's grotesque failures, they've also missed a vital opportunity to prepare for whatever next deadly, future crisis inevitably hovers."
https://www.commondreams.org/further/an-unusual-performance-facts-472-clowns-0
@realcaseyrollins @Captain_Jack_Sparrow @cjd @volkris I know it is just a username, but I can't get through this thread without hearing https://www.yewtu.be/watch?v=GI6CfKcMhjY
I don't know how anyone could make a reductive statement that COVID restrictions and forced vaccinations saved lives when the realities are so much more complex.
-increased "deaths of despair" such as suicide, drug overdoses, and death by alcoholism immediately and directly due to lockdowns
-increased deaths due to abuse not being intervened because abused were legally stuck in the house with their abusers
-economic stress leading to long term effects due to poverty (and for idiot boomers who think the economy is going well because their 401(k)s are going up, most people don't have significant retirement savings or investments -- millions are putting stress on food banks because people who never had to use them before are going now, and there's tent cities in many cities that never had them before because so many people are being bumped out of permanent housing)
-Gen Z kids in high school and college have major problems due to subpar education. Reading, writing, and math competency levels are massively affected particularly among vulnerable communities which will have knock-on effects for generations we won't even know.
-Gen Alpha kids born immediately before or during the pandemic are developmentally delayed due to massively reduced exposure to critical stimuli early on in life which will have knock-on effects for generations we won't even know.
-Gen Alpha kids born earlier and so in kindergarten are facing early developmental setbacks such as poor socialization which will have knock-on effects for generations we won't even know.
-Donald Trump's project warpspeed by definition sped up development of COVID vaccines by speeding up basic testing, and by giving drug companies liability waivers so they could toss their Latest R&D out there without regard for long-term efficacy or long-term side-effects. Trump-haters correctly pointed out that it takes decades to properly test a vaccine, but magically forgot that fact when their political leaders took on vaccination as their authoritarian cause du jour. "Oh, a bunch of people didn't immediately die when they took the vaccine" you might counter, to which I'd point to many things that have long term effects such as cigarette smoking, asbestos, DDT, lead paint, or radioactive substances. To give it an immediate and obvious example of how long-term testing wasn't done and nobody really knew, it was originally stated that getting vaccinated was enough, but for people following along at home they'd be on like their 8th booster at this point.
-some might argue "oh none of this was the doctors fault, it was caused by the virus", but we have a growing body of evidence from official sources suggesting that the NIH was illegally funding coronavirus gain of function research in Wuhan and so there's a direct csusal link between fauci and the novel coronavirus.
-some might argue "the vaccine saves lives among the vulnerable such as cancer patients or the elderly", which I would potentially accept, except it wasn't just rolled out to people who were vulnerable and people who were worried and wanted additional protection, it was mandated to many people who were healthy and could have withstood the virus without taking experimental drugs and didn't want to take it but had to or lose their jobs or freedom to travel. Some countries following Americas lead forced everyone to get vaccinated period, and it was common for politicians to make certain levels of vaccination in the population conditions of easing restrictions, an authoritarian measure that took everyone's freedom hostage.
-it is now proven beyond any doubt that the federal government directly interfered with science, using levers behind the scenes to reward certain viewpoints and totally silence others. Besides the immediate harm from causing potentially false science to be published about the pandemic, the damage to science as an institution will have long lasting knock-on effects we can't predict and likely won't be able to measure given the dataset we have.
-the lockdowns and other measures such as mail-in voting can be seen as having a direct causal link to both left wing and right wing riots which even if you justify your own side's riots can at least be seen as harmful due to the other side's riots. These events have long tail effects I doubt we can easily measure, but increased political instability can have larger effects than even the most charitable COVID death tolls.
-the weakening of the west due to COVID measures could be seen as having a direct causal link to Putin's decision to invade Ukraine, seeing a moment of weakness as a good time to strike. Of course it is a complex issue and perhaps he would have done it anyway, but if he wouldn't have but for the intense weakening of the west due to the self-imposed measures due to a potentially self-inflicted virus, then a lot of peoples miserable deaths may be attributed to it.
-there are a number of deadly regional conflicts which can be shown to have been causally linked to COVID restrictions. As just one example, Sri Lanka was doing very well before the pandemic, but due to travel restrictions lost a key revenue stream ultimately leading to mass starvation and political revolution.
So to summarize: there are broad and far-reaching effects of everything that was done during the covid-19 pandemic such as lockdowns and forced vaccinations, and the pandemic itself may have been caused by the Fauci-led NIH, and the overbroad nature of pandemic measures increased the harm done. It's really difficult to legitimately say Fauci saved lives in the long term with any level of certainty.
Certainly, the point that I'm making is not necessarily that the response was wrong on its face, but rather that stating unequivocally that they saved lives is extremely naive and imprecise. Even the stuff that looks really bad like the gain of function research or the censoring of academics may have been done with the absolute best of intentions, but good intentions don't prevent policies from having unintended consequences.
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Fauci is guilty of PRESIDING over a pandemic, Trump is too, full stop.
These people are Masters, letting them weasel out of accountability by demanding to be judged by Slave Morality is cucked.
@Fu but… why’s all the rum gone?
It would help us deal with this world!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JImcvtJzIK8
@realcaseyrollins @Captain_Jack_Sparrow @cjd
Notice that there’s an enormous difference between Is there a way we could inject something like a disinfectant? vs People should inject themselves with bleach!
So yes, you made it up, ascribing to Trump a quote that was so completely different from what he actually said.
It reminds me that occasionally press reporters would do things like leave out the word “not” in a statement he made, turning the statement into the exact opposite, and people would just go with it.
@realcaseyrollins AND it also explains why so many Republicans are die hard Trump supporters even though his performance in office was exactly the opposite of what they claim they wanted.
Had Democrats actually criticized Trump on his actual record he might have lost the support of those diehards.
Instead, they criticized the guy based on things he didn’t do, that Republicans wish he did do, and so they were his best campaigners.
It’s such a stupid, stupid political environment we live in.
@meowski I can answer that: because statistics.
It’s like saying, how could anyone playing the lottery have won when playing the lottery means you increased your chances of having a lighter wallet?
That’s just how averaging works.
You’re asking how there could be outliers, and well, that’s how the calculation works.
it's hard to admit you were conned. you're like the email scam victim who wants to keep sending money to the nigerian prince
STOP. just stop it now, you were conned
I haven't seen age-stratified data on the all-cause, but at least vaccine induced myocarditis/pericarditis is heavily clustered in males 12-39. So from everything I've seen, **for the olds**, doesn't seem like a terrible risk profile for the modest protection it offered.
And the jab wasn't the only intervention.
I don't know why you're making me defend fauci rn he should be in gitmo.
it's all garbage. they're just throwing out some marginal number to safe face now, still based on subjective data. the efficacy was always based on statistical trickery like using "relative risk reduction" instead of absolute, and using biased assessments of symptomatic disease.
i could see that it was 100% a scam and a lie, within about 2 seconds of them announcing that it "protected you against serious disease and hospitalization but didn't prevent you from catching or transmitting it" which is why i never got any jabs. some others still havent' figured it out and want to dig their heels in and cope
it's time to stop clinging to your little 3% effective number. it's deadly poison. you can not get 3% effectiveness out of something so deadly
if 100 people eat rat poison, it does not magically help a tiny fraction of them just to make you feel better
they're not failures though. the operation was carried out as intended
These are not mutually exclusive. It is a failure of a sensemaking institution to fall victim to activist infiltration / elite capture.
The first rule of science is to not fool yourself. And you are the easiest person to fool.
—Richard Feynman
"oh but it helped a few people a little bit" is utterly retarded
in this case destroying your immune system and training it against the wrong antigen definitely does make it mutually exclusive
"Not mutually exclusive" refers to only those two propositions:
- they failed
- they intentionally mislead
You are conflating every line of reasoning into a single grand-unified-argument. It is an unhelpful approach.
I appreciate your passion, but nuance is not your enemy.
it helped exactly nobody, evidenced by the fact that flu numbers went to zero, while "covid deaths" were primarly caused by hospital policies and were entirely survivable. 100:1 covid deaths weren't even covid.
your entire underlying premise, that there was anything deadly to measure protection against, is flawed horse shit.
> Oh well they messed up, everyone's human, lets give them another chance
You guys have been giving them another chance since 1971, and you've brought the US to the edge of collapse. Bad news for you is that declining birth rate has wiped out any chance of Social Security remaining solvent, so the next act is going to be a messy one.
Where did that 👆 energy go?
That was when I decided it was time to GTFO of the US, I moved to France and never looked back.
American politics has more or less exactly followed the path I had expected.
he's by no means the only psychopath involved but he is one of the ringleaders
we're dealing with an army of psychopaths and bureaucrats and greedy corpos. screw nuance at this point
"The risk of COVID-19 also increased with time since the most recent prior COVID-19 episode and with the number of vaccine doses previously received."
https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/more-covid-vaccine-doses-higher-virus-risk/
https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/10/6/ofad209/7131292?login=false
these numbers show that it's crap. a dose dependent relationship is strong evidence of that.
and this doesn't even factor in your risk of serious adverse events compared to a virus that is almost 100% survivable (especially with ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine) so it's all a moot point regardless
man how many jabs did you get????
Sure it makes the gauge read full, but the engine won't actually run any further than it would have.
@meowski @nicholas @cjd @volkris @realcaseyrollins
Stop spreading fake science.
https://arxiv.org/html/2404.15298v1
And those are just the ones that got retracted...
https://www.science.org/content/article/whistleblowers-flagged-300-scientific-papers-for-retraction-many-journals-ghosted-them
Educate 👏 yourself 👏
https://www.nature.com/articles/533452a
https://calteches.library.caltech.edu/51/2/CargoCult.htm
http://www.feynman.com/science/what-is-science/
@meowski @nicholas @cjd @volkris @realcaseyrollins
This is you.
Learn some facts before you start telling people what they should do, you clueless little twerp.
You're so far below midwit tier you're just embarrassing yourself. Read more Feynman and less DeGrasse Tyson. Call us when you've read the reference material we already sent you 👍
by all means take the jabs though, you should take 10 of them
@meowski cherrypicking quotes that happen to match your beliefs doesn’t get us anywhere.
@volkris @cjd @realcaseyrollins
He said this
"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs."
Those were his exact words during a press conference. I don't deny that he backtracked from it later, but he said those words, up to you if you want to say I made it up, but you're wrong.
@Captain_Jack_Sparrow and those exact words debunk the claim about what he said.
When you yourself point out that he said something different from what you claim he said, you sink your own case.
But seriously @volkris, if you think these are meaningless cherrypicked quotes, I have to ask: do you not understand the implications of the replication crisis, or do you not even know what it is?
@meowski I would like to get to what’s actually going on in the world.
I don’t give a fuck if you take a jab or not. What you put into your body is none of my business.
these highly respected scientists are telling you it's completely valid and logical to not trust the science
@meowski did you include any quotes from people that don’t support your conclusions? Certainly they exist.
Therefore they are cherry picked and confirming your biases.
are you flipping retarded?
@nicholas It’s almost like I’m trying to get to the core of your own position irrespective of anyone else.
Your perspective should be able to stand on its own, one would think.
You crashed this thread turning your nose up at @realcaseyrollins for just telling you "[his] own position irrespective of anyone else":
>can you prove your case with anything other than appeals to deep down knowledge?
Oh, but don't you dare prove your case by citing many respected experts in the field because then it's:
>cherrypicking to confirm your biases.
It's just bad-faith meta-argument with you all the way down.
@nicholas what do you think my case is?
What am I leaving unproven?
If you need a refresher the thread is right up there 👆
@nicholas said what? What quote are you quoting?
I have no idea what you’re going on about, and I’m asking for clarification, but you’re not giving me anything to work with here.
I don’t know what you’re talking about, and you’re not clarifying what you’re trying to say.
I asked what my case is, and you’ve just said something about your own quotations, which doesn’t answer my question about what you think my case is.
You may not in fact be arguing in bad faith, you might actually just be evincing the Dunning-Krugar effect.
@nicholas it’s not about me, but about you.
I’m trying to figure out what you’re talking about, and you’re not really helping with your obsession over me.
Let’s talk about you and what you think. I’m just not that interesting.
Couldn't agree more. Good day sir.