Every investor can't "cash in." Cash is recieved as consideration for the sale of bitcoin to a buyer. If there are no buyers, the value is theoretically $0.
Indeed…
With the potential rate cut in September, perfect set up, I presume ButtCoin will hit 100K🐾
@neanderthalsnavel @Humpleupagus
Exactly…
If someone wants Buttcoin then this is what I'll give…👇
👇
“A little bit of internet money + Some hard liquor" 👈👈
The irony is that they're sold as a currency, but their value is constantly pinned to the dollar.
I mean.... I don't regularly think "I have $100 in my wallet, that's worth X Yen."
The fact it's so regularly pinned to another currency is a clear indication that it has failed as an intrinsic currency.
I mean.... I don't regularly think "I have $100 in my wallet, that's worth X Yen."
The fact it's so regularly pinned to another currency is a clear indication that it has failed as an intrinsic currency.
@Humpleupagus @neanderthalsnavel
I say this..
“Guess who's back, back again ButtCoin’s back, tell a friend... da da da da…”
“I've created a monster, 'cause nobody wants to see Fiat no more they want ButtCoin, I'm chopped liver”😁
What it represents is a transferrable store of value that politicians can't print any more of. Nothing more, nothing less.
It's not like a company because it earns nothing, but it's also not like a company because powerful people can't just sue it to death, regulate it out of existence, or send a mob enforcer to burn it to the ground.
In a good world, you always want your money to be invested in things that produce maximum value, and you would invest like Warren Buffett.
We don't live in a good world, we live in a world where politicians print money and manipulate markets. If you invest like Warren Buffett you will perform worse than the market, because The Market has been turned into a Tech Buzzword Casino.
The foundational thesis of crypto is "I reject your definition of value, I value this instead". And again, in a good world, this would be kind of a niche thing and wouldn't have much price appreciation.
But we don't live in a good world, so this idea of opting out of has gotten a lot of traction, and we've ended up with a "stampede" of value moving into these assets which has driven a "crazy" price rise.
Of course there is a downstream cohort which doesn't have any idea of why they might want to buy crypto, they're just chasing green candles, but this is true of everything.
It's not like a company because it earns nothing, but it's also not like a company because powerful people can't just sue it to death, regulate it out of existence, or send a mob enforcer to burn it to the ground.
In a good world, you always want your money to be invested in things that produce maximum value, and you would invest like Warren Buffett.
We don't live in a good world, we live in a world where politicians print money and manipulate markets. If you invest like Warren Buffett you will perform worse than the market, because The Market has been turned into a Tech Buzzword Casino.
The foundational thesis of crypto is "I reject your definition of value, I value this instead". And again, in a good world, this would be kind of a niche thing and wouldn't have much price appreciation.
But we don't live in a good world, so this idea of opting out of has gotten a lot of traction, and we've ended up with a "stampede" of value moving into these assets which has driven a "crazy" price rise.
Of course there is a downstream cohort which doesn't have any idea of why they might want to buy crypto, they're just chasing green candles, but this is true of everything.
@cjd @Humpleupagus @neanderthalsnavel
“ It's not like a company because it earns nothing.", it's truly true.
Its dividends don't come from productive activities.
"What it represents is a transferable store of value", a good remark, then I might ask the transferability, how good is the transferability of, say, Bitcoin?
Compared to gold, it's hilariously good. Every time you transfer gold, you have to take risk to get it to its destination and then the recipient has to either trust you, or melt it down to check you didn't put tungsten in it.
Transfer of other things is pretty much always mediated by a custodian, which means there's someone out there holding and protecting the underlying asset - and then you have to pay for that protection.
Either you're paying a vaulting fee, property tax, or such up front, or you're holding an asset like dollars where the protection fee is pulled out of the value of the asset by printing.
Arguably bitcoin is in the second category because "happened before" relationship of transactions is protected by mining, but that fee is lower and more predictable than it is with dollars, which get printed for any old reason, subject to the whim of politicians.
Transfer of other things is pretty much always mediated by a custodian, which means there's someone out there holding and protecting the underlying asset - and then you have to pay for that protection.
Either you're paying a vaulting fee, property tax, or such up front, or you're holding an asset like dollars where the protection fee is pulled out of the value of the asset by printing.
Arguably bitcoin is in the second category because "happened before" relationship of transactions is protected by mining, but that fee is lower and more predictable than it is with dollars, which get printed for any old reason, subject to the whim of politicians.
Until I can walk into a grocery store, gas station etc to use it, it has no value. If you are counting it as an investment like any stock, you still need to sell it for cash to use it.
Yes but that is true even for people in places like Venezuela where the value of the money is falling so fast that you don't want to be holding cash for more than a day.
@cjd @Humpleupagus @neanderthalsnavel
I see your point, and even crypto skeptic Trump changed his mind, it seems.
ButtCoin CAN POSSIBLY OVERTAKE THE MARKET CAP OF GOLD - ButtCoin Cheerleader TRUMP
@KK954 @Humpleupagus @neanderthalsnavel @cjd
A HUGE PROBLEM……, even though it can shoot the moon before the election.
@cjd @Humpleupagus @KK954 @neanderthalsnavel
😁 well….., what shall we do…., 💎 🥈 🥉?
What I've said in the past is that the top is defined by degens, and the bottom is defined by believers.
It's the same with silver. You're paying a premium to buy it and sell it, everyone makes a profit but you. If you want my two cents for someone wanting to hold metal. Buy boxes of nickels from the bank. It's the only coin left that is still primarily it's pure metal at 75% nickel. Cost you two dollars a roll, no premiums and it's still worth two dollars a roll to spend it. If the government eventually changes it's composite away from nickel, you are going to have something that will appreciate quickly.
The idea behind buying metal isn't to make money. You stop losing it.
The dollar bleeds every time congress meets.
The dollar bleeds every time congress meets.
No you don't. What are you buying the gold with? The dollar goes down, it's costing you more money to buy gold. If the dollar collapses tomorrow, are you going to take your one ounce gold coin to the store for a gallon of milk? Or how do you plan to sell your gold, if the dollar collaspes?
@KK954 @bobbala @Humpleupagus @Twig @neanderthalsnavel @cjd >i'm going to walk around with precious metals when there's no wide spread illusion of law and order
lol great plan, whats your general region? and what calibers are you holding?
lol great plan, whats your general region? and what calibers are you holding?
@bobbala @Humpleupagus @KK954 @neanderthalsnavel @cjd
I admire you Head 👍💥💯
Gold doesn't really make sense in the case of the government going entirely to shit - what makes sense is HARD SKILLS, because when the local Arian Brotherhood faction is the only thing that will keep you alive, you get to eat if you know how to:
* Kill and butcher a deer
* Fix a motor bike
* Forage and cook edible plants
* Take solar cells and power tool batteries and re-assembly them to re-power 2 way radios
etc.
Gold will NOT keep you alive, it will be taken.
Gold also doesn't make sense if the government is doing just great because, well, you should be invested in things that make value!
Gold makes sense in some kind of twilight moment of dysfunction, but in these moments, but in these moments crypto makes more sense, so IMO gold is kind of outdated.
* Kill and butcher a deer
* Fix a motor bike
* Forage and cook edible plants
* Take solar cells and power tool batteries and re-assembly them to re-power 2 way radios
etc.
Gold will NOT keep you alive, it will be taken.
Gold also doesn't make sense if the government is doing just great because, well, you should be invested in things that make value!
Gold makes sense in some kind of twilight moment of dysfunction, but in these moments, but in these moments crypto makes more sense, so IMO gold is kind of outdated.
@neanderthalsnavel @Humpleupagus @Twig The theory goes that it represents work and therefore it is a store of value. Someone spent time and money to mine it. Who knows how it turns out But thats the basic theory.
@smokescreen @Humpleupagus @neanderthalsnavel
Mining…, unnecessary activity perhaps?
@cjd @Humpleupagus @bobbala @KK954 @neanderthalsnavel
👍
I say we must fix the system along with social security😁
@cjd @KK954 @Humpleupagus @bobbala @Twig @neanderthalsnavel i dont agree with the crypto part .. but investing in real items that have purpose? 100 %
@brokeassredneck @Humpleupagus @bobbala @KK954 @neanderthalsnavel @cjd
Would you agree to that if crypto is compulsory?
@Twig @brokeassredneck @Humpleupagus @bobbala @KK954 @neanderthalsnavel @cjd Kaczynski was right
@stoner713 @Humpleupagus @bobbala @KK954 @neanderthalsnavel @cjd @brokeassredneck
😁👍 it’s maddeningly real!
@cjd @KK954 @Humpleupagus @bobbala @Twig @neanderthalsnavel I've been thinking about that this week. More than what you said, to survive one will need to hunker down in a defensible position until the roving hordes starve and die. Until they're all dead, being outside will be perilous. Might take months. One should be prepared to defend what one has, including food and water stores, during the Fun Times.
Then the hard-skills come into use, in rebuilding.
Then the hard-skills come into use, in rebuilding.
@NoDoxGregBrady @Humpleupagus @bobbala @KK954 @neanderthalsnavel @cjd
I admire your head😁
If the majority of people have no electricity or internet, crypto won't be helpful.
It doesn't work like this.
Everyone thinks about this Mad Max, return to the stone age total collapse, but in all of the wars that happened around the world, this scenario has never happened.
What actually happens is things become the same, but shittier.
Things like fuel, electricity and internet don't become unavailable, they become expensive and limited to certain places and times. But when and where there is electricity, everyone goes to charge their phones, and when and where there is cell service, everyone goes to send messages to their family and get news updates.
People never rush adopt precious metals as a medium of exchange (they also don't rush to adopt crypto). They use local paper currency or if the local currency is completely debased, they may use dollars or euros. People stick with whatever has the lowest friction of adoption, when everything is upside-down is NOT a time that anyone is thinking about new ideas for money.
For large purchases like a car, or (say) paying to be smuggled out of the country, sellers tend to accept bitcoin because they know nobody has that much cash on hand. But it's already like that: If you're buying a yacht or a supercar, dealers typically accept bitcoin because you're not the first person who asked to pay in it.
Everyone thinks about this Mad Max, return to the stone age total collapse, but in all of the wars that happened around the world, this scenario has never happened.
What actually happens is things become the same, but shittier.
Things like fuel, electricity and internet don't become unavailable, they become expensive and limited to certain places and times. But when and where there is electricity, everyone goes to charge their phones, and when and where there is cell service, everyone goes to send messages to their family and get news updates.
People never rush adopt precious metals as a medium of exchange (they also don't rush to adopt crypto). They use local paper currency or if the local currency is completely debased, they may use dollars or euros. People stick with whatever has the lowest friction of adoption, when everything is upside-down is NOT a time that anyone is thinking about new ideas for money.
For large purchases like a car, or (say) paying to be smuggled out of the country, sellers tend to accept bitcoin because they know nobody has that much cash on hand. But it's already like that: If you're buying a yacht or a supercar, dealers typically accept bitcoin because you're not the first person who asked to pay in it.
@Twig
Most likely, but you never know.
@cjd @Humpleupagus @neanderthalsnavel
I tend to agree with you that the likelihood of a full mad Max civilizational collapse is pretty limited. If you have a region that is fully capable of maintaining its own electricity using resources such as solar or hydroelectric as well as maintaining its own food supplies, and doing a reasonable job of internal defense and external defense, then there's no reason to believe that such a region won't be able to maintain itself. The places that are most at risk are going to be the big cities that rely on other regions to jam them full of material resources. In scenarios like the bronze age collapse, the code orders were just fine, and even the nation of Egypt continued to bump along, but other civilizations such as the Minoans were completely erased from history for millennia.
I tend to think that the places that will be hardest hit in an apocalypse scenario will be the ones that can't actually sustain themselves. Mortality rates in overpopulated regions will be astronomical since there won't be anything nearby to deal with all of the people to feed. For parallel to that, you can look at the Harappan civilization, also known as the Indus valley Civilization which collapsed leaving basically nothing. That occurred in part because of changes to the climate and also degradation of the soil. There seem to be evidence of the Harappan civilization in the stories of Hindu, which does suggest that somebody made it out alive, as far as I know even today that region is barren and unpopulated.
I don't think we can make predictions as to which currency might be in use. Over the past 8000 years gold has been something that kept its value, but many things that were also considered valuable stopped being valuable. My favorite example is aluminum which was once a precious metal more valuable than gold and today we make disposable drink containers out of it. I tend to think that the Internet functioning to the extent cryptos would need it to is likely a bit aspirational even in a mild collapse scenario as international infrastructure would be the first thing to stop working, since regional conflicts would likely not desire a global network to allow tactical and strategic information to sieve through.
I tend to think that the places that will be hardest hit in an apocalypse scenario will be the ones that can't actually sustain themselves. Mortality rates in overpopulated regions will be astronomical since there won't be anything nearby to deal with all of the people to feed. For parallel to that, you can look at the Harappan civilization, also known as the Indus valley Civilization which collapsed leaving basically nothing. That occurred in part because of changes to the climate and also degradation of the soil. There seem to be evidence of the Harappan civilization in the stories of Hindu, which does suggest that somebody made it out alive, as far as I know even today that region is barren and unpopulated.
I don't think we can make predictions as to which currency might be in use. Over the past 8000 years gold has been something that kept its value, but many things that were also considered valuable stopped being valuable. My favorite example is aluminum which was once a precious metal more valuable than gold and today we make disposable drink containers out of it. I tend to think that the Internet functioning to the extent cryptos would need it to is likely a bit aspirational even in a mild collapse scenario as international infrastructure would be the first thing to stop working, since regional conflicts would likely not desire a global network to allow tactical and strategic information to sieve through.
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