One for @HebrideanHecate. We have staff bullying 12-year-olds for their political opinions, now this.
@thatbrickster so here we have a child who was previously indoctrinated by his parents.
@condret Children usually inherit the views of their parents. I was an exception for a while, until I realised the way they expressed said views was inadequate.
Your point?
Your point?
@thatbrickster Apparently there was one daft bat in the school where I am from who was doing this too, so had been informed, friend said not sure if she is still there or not. All it takes is one rotten apple, and the headmaster is also a raging buffoon. That school has been dragged into the gutter and there are only 6 kids in the whole place doing Highers, which is an absolute disgrace of a situation. In an area where education used to be highly prized. They also came the very bottom of the results league in all of Scotland, what a bloody embarrassment.
@Hyolobrika @thatbrickster yes, i agree
@thatbrickster @condret I care about the free speech issue. I don't care about people's outrage over people wanting to be called "Mx." or wanting to call other people "Miss."
Personally, I would just call them "Mx." if that's what they prefer to be called, but I wouldn't tolerate being punished for doing otherwise.
Something tells me though that the woman in the video wouldn't be so outraged if her son was put in detention for calling his teacher "Mr."
Seems to be more about forcing tradition on the progressives or progress on the traditionalists rather than freedom for all.
Personally, I would just call them "Mx." if that's what they prefer to be called, but I wouldn't tolerate being punished for doing otherwise.
Something tells me though that the woman in the video wouldn't be so outraged if her son was put in detention for calling his teacher "Mr."
Seems to be more about forcing tradition on the progressives or progress on the traditionalists rather than freedom for all.
@Hyolobrika @thatbrickster yeah, i also suspect this was made up. can't say how it's in britain, but in germany parents need to agree to the detention of their kids, and if they disagree, their child won't get detained
@condret Detention is given without needing parental consent in the UK.
@Hyolobrika This in isolation means nothing. This is part of a pattern that leaves a negative perception of the education system in my mouth. If you've been following my posts, you'd have an idea (whether you agree or disagree is up to you).
@Hyolobrika This in isolation means nothing. This is part of a pattern that leaves a negative perception of the education system in my mouth. If you've been following my posts, you'd have an idea (whether you agree or disagree is up to you).
@thatbrickster @condret @Hyolobrika Yeah. Detention was just handed out as a punishment. I don't remember parents getting involved with it. Although I think it was usually more lunchtime being used.
@thatbrickster @Hyolobrika
> Detention is given without needing parental consent in the UK.
Barbaric. What makes people in uk think that parenting is the responsibility of the educational system?
> Detention is given without needing parental consent in the UK.
Barbaric. What makes people in uk think that parenting is the responsibility of the educational system?
@sim While there's a >0% chance that this could be staged for social clout, there's a few things that suggest this could be genuine.
1. Children who don't believe in trans ideology are referred to Prevent, the country's counter-extremism programme.
2. Staff are known to push personal politics on to children. The parents are now expected to give up their kids so they can afford to live, while strangers raise them.
3. 'Mx' is a legally recognised salutation that may be used on government documentation, such as passports. It is a modern invention that covers gender non-binary (enby) individuals.
4. People who are attached to this get upset when others who not honour, or externally validate, their chosen identity. This teacher was likely reacting with emotion (i.e. irrationally) when they came across this student who either didn't understand or didn't agree with what the teacher was telling them to do.
The point of education is to ask questions. In today's society, you are expected to take protected topics at face value. This is but one reason why I don't wish to consign my children to public education.
@Hyolobrika @condret
1. Children who don't believe in trans ideology are referred to Prevent, the country's counter-extremism programme.
2. Staff are known to push personal politics on to children. The parents are now expected to give up their kids so they can afford to live, while strangers raise them.
3. 'Mx' is a legally recognised salutation that may be used on government documentation, such as passports. It is a modern invention that covers gender non-binary (enby) individuals.
4. People who are attached to this get upset when others who not honour, or externally validate, their chosen identity. This teacher was likely reacting with emotion (i.e. irrationally) when they came across this student who either didn't understand or didn't agree with what the teacher was telling them to do.
The point of education is to ask questions. In today's society, you are expected to take protected topics at face value. This is but one reason why I don't wish to consign my children to public education.
@Hyolobrika @condret
@condret I couldn't tell you if it has always been this way. My own experience has been detention is given for misbehaviour and the parent only needs to be informed if it's of a serious nature, if many detentions are given, or if it's after school and the parent needs to arrange collection.
We're at a point where parents have reduced their responsibility when raising kids that they've relied more on the education system, and the state, to do it for them. There are financial reasons involved but most parents either don't have time or as actively disinterested in their children. We wonder why crime involving children is so high.
@Hyolobrika
We're at a point where parents have reduced their responsibility when raising kids that they've relied more on the education system, and the state, to do it for them. There are financial reasons involved but most parents either don't have time or as actively disinterested in their children. We wonder why crime involving children is so high.
@Hyolobrika
@condret @thatbrickster @Hyolobrika The state and schools decided this was so. Do you think that parents even have a choice? I mean, if your child isn't sent to school then you can be sent to prison here. Legal action can be used against you basically.
@condret I can only call it a 'social revolution'. This has only happened in my lifetime. The best way I can describe it is that nongovernmental organisations (NGOs), such as Stonewall, instill and reinforce these values within the public sector under Diversity, Equity (formerly Equality), and Inclusion initiatives. The Equality Act and Gender Recognition Act make it hard to unwind this 'revolution' and the people who can do anything are either at work (you get financial incentives for leaving your child with a state provider) or get threatened by the police (state violence). This has been brewing under Blair's New Labour government and been put into action under the various Conservative governments.
@Hyolobrika @sim
@Hyolobrika @sim
@sim @Hyolobrika @thatbrickster you also go to prison in germany if you don't send your kids to school, for good reason, as i believe.
@condret @Hyolobrika @thatbrickster But then you wonder why the parents aren't educating their children, right? That has been taken off their hands because they send them to schools. I don't know how you hold schools or the state accountable during those hours but I don't think it is parents deciding what their children are taught. Most of it happens behind closed doors, and you have to put up and shut up if you want your child there.
It's not a stretch either to go from that to the school teaches children about things like sex education and about their bodies. Not to mention that school is basically all day, and when children come home there isn't much time to educate them especially after dinner and homework. The school dictates the education of children here, but some other body is probably dictating to the school what the education should be thus leaving parents out of the equation now. And parents are usually busy working now to get too involved.
It's not a stretch either to go from that to the school teaches children about things like sex education and about their bodies. Not to mention that school is basically all day, and when children come home there isn't much time to educate them especially after dinner and homework. The school dictates the education of children here, but some other body is probably dictating to the school what the education should be thus leaving parents out of the equation now. And parents are usually busy working now to get too involved.
@Hyolobrika @condret @thatbrickster I think it is getting harder to home-educate and there is naturally bureaucracy involved here. Having to declare it and all.
@sim @Hyolobrika @thatbrickster the parents have no say in what is taught to their children and thats good. there is a difference between parenting and education. where would we get if parents could prevent their kids from getting sex ed or history lessons on the holocaust? we'd end up in the american situation, with creationist lunatics and prudish maniacs. eww
@condret @Hyolobrika @thatbrickster Then you do in fact agree with this: "What makes people in uk think that parenting is the responsibility of the educational system?" I don't understand this question then.
The school decides on the education and they are responsible for children in their care following whatever guidelines are handed to them by the state and independent bodies that the state puts in charge here. If you don't do your homework, if you misbehave during class, anything like that then you can get detention for it.
The school decides on the education and they are responsible for children in their care following whatever guidelines are handed to them by the state and independent bodies that the state puts in charge here. If you don't do your homework, if you misbehave during class, anything like that then you can get detention for it.
@Hyolobrika @sim @thatbrickster yeah i get where you're coming from, but someone has to do it, and i don't want to leave this up to the parents. you need some standards in education or you end in a broken society, where people can no longer talk to each other
@Hyolobrika There's an 'Extend Article' button below it. Granted, it's silly.
Have a second source. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13581155/Boy-12-referred-counter-extremist-Prevent-officers-school-declaring-two-genders-Im-gay-not-queer.html
Have a second source. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13581155/Boy-12-referred-counter-extremist-Prevent-officers-school-declaring-two-genders-Im-gay-not-queer.html
@condret @sim @thatbrickster
a) Why do we "need to be able to talk to each other" so much that the government should force everyone to believe the same things?
b) We can talk to people with differing views just fine if we want to. And if anyone doesn't, who are you or the government to tell them they must?
I'm seriously wondering what your "anarchism" is actually about. You seem to love government force.
a) Why do we "need to be able to talk to each other" so much that the government should force everyone to believe the same things?
b) We can talk to people with differing views just fine if we want to. And if anyone doesn't, who are you or the government to tell them they must?
I'm seriously wondering what your "anarchism" is actually about. You seem to love government force.
@Hyolobrika @condret @thatbrickster Not to mention that things like sex education used to be the responsibility of the parents to teach but the state has taken on this role instead. The education system has continued to encroach on the role of the parent and we wonder why there is so much confusion surrounding this topic. What if the information now conflicts as well? I mean, the lady in the OP is well within her rights as the parent to teach her children about manners and to say Miss or Mrs. This is the parental role to pass down but now the teacher wants to punish the child for this.
@sim @Hyolobrika @thatbrickster thoigh the child should hsve said mx, the detention is inappropriate here
@condret @Hyolobrika @thatbrickster Why should the child say mx anyway? It is weird. But I do agree that the detention is inappropriate. In some sense, the school has rules and therefore the school has taken on the parental role of teaching manners. I don't think we should be blaming parents for what the school and whoever they get guidelines from decide. It will just get contradicted like in this case and further confuse children anyway.
@sim @condret @thatbrickster @Hyolobrika
It's a terrible idea to put the state in charge of anything as important as education or health care.
It's a terrible idea to put the state in charge of anything as important as education or health care.
@sim @condret @thatbrickster I think the problem here is that they are trying to enact social change by forcing it from above, when it should happen naturally if it is to happen at all.
@condret @sim @thatbrickster True. But I think people should be allowed to believe "false facts" as well. We can't all agree on what is true and it is wrong to force your idea of what is true on other people who don't agree.
Bad ideas get arguments, not bullets.
Bad ideas get arguments, not bullets.
@sim @Hyolobrika @thatbrickster out of respect for the individual's right to self realization. according to the philosphy of hegel we are not free on our own in a society but throught the affirmation of others that we are free. a former slave needs society to accept them as free, or he is not free in that society. with gender, and especially with transgender identities it is an almost identical relation. this is why so many trans people are focused on passing as a specific gender, they need the affirmation of others of their gender identity for that identity to be real to them. it's not just body modding through gender affirming care and maybe wearing makeup.
Now you could say that all of this is maybe too hard to comprehend for a 12 yo, and though i'm not sure about that i'd give you that point. what a 12 yo however does understand is "please do me a favor by calling me Mx <lastname> just like i call you by your name". it doesn't hurt nor harm.
Now you could say that all of this is maybe too hard to comprehend for a 12 yo, and though i'm not sure about that i'd give you that point. what a 12 yo however does understand is "please do me a favor by calling me Mx <lastname> just like i call you by your name". it doesn't hurt nor harm.
@condret @sim @thatbrickster @Hyolobrika
All Leftist "facts" are partial representations or lies
(helicopter noises)
All Leftist "facts" are partial representations or lies
(helicopter noises)
@condret @sim @thatbrickster I don't agree with that conception of freedom. I think it's about what you are able to do.
If I was a former slave, and I was no longer obligated to work for a master, but people kept calling me a slave, I mean, who cares? They are just being rude and/or denying reality or having a different definition of "slave" to me, not denying me freedom.
This makes me think about how IRL, people keep asking me what I prefer to be called. But I couldn't care less so long as it's not confusing or insulting.
If I was a former slave, and I was no longer obligated to work for a master, but people kept calling me a slave, I mean, who cares? They are just being rude and/or denying reality or having a different definition of "slave" to me, not denying me freedom.
This makes me think about how IRL, people keep asking me what I prefer to be called. But I couldn't care less so long as it's not confusing or insulting.
@Hyolobrika @sim @thatbrickster what would you do, as a former slave, if people would still treat you as a slave?
@Hyolobrika @sim @thatbrickster not sell you any goods, because slaves have no right to own property.
not paying you for your labor, saying that they will pay your master.
... etc
not paying you for your labor, saying that they will pay your master.
... etc
@condret @sim @thatbrickster Yeah, that makes sense.
I would say gtfo of that place, but sometimes that's not an option.
I would say gtfo of that place, but sometimes that's not an option.
@condret @sim @thatbrickster In that case though, the base condition is still whether I am able to live a full life as a free man. And if other people don't let me in that way, I guess I wouldn't. So maybe it does matter how other people treat me.
Then again, if you can exit to somewhere that will treat you well, then it doesn't matter.
But people just saying "you are a slave" doesn't, even though it's rude and obnoxious.
Similarly, saying "you are a man/woman" to trans/non-binary people doesn't infringe on their freedom to live their life the way they please, even if it offends them.
Then again, if you can exit to somewhere that will treat you well, then it doesn't matter.
But people just saying "you are a slave" doesn't, even though it's rude and obnoxious.
Similarly, saying "you are a man/woman" to trans/non-binary people doesn't infringe on their freedom to live their life the way they please, even if it offends them.
@condret @sim @thatbrickster For trans people when they get "misgendered" they or their "allies" become enraged and commit or advocate violence against those who offended them that way.
@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net social exclusion, discrimination in housing, employment, etc
That doesn't sound like something that happens in the west in this day and age.
Also, why do they get so upset over misgendering if the real problem is something worse? This sounds like a motte and bailey.
@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net uh... well idk what to tell you, it does.
@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net why does it happen? idk people have misinformed beliefs or are just assholes?
How would being trans be relevant to a housing or job application?
Except if the job is to care for people who can't for various reasons be with a man or woman.
Except if the job is to care for people who can't for various reasons be with a man or woman.
@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net it's not. Some people still make an issue out of it
@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net they often wont admit to it but if they do they will use lies claiming trans people are sex predators or carry disease, etc
@Hyolobrika Can't believe I'm saying this but it absolutely does. I can't speak for those who may be transitioning or detransitioning who experience social isolation, discrimination in the workplace, etc. but there's more than a handful of stories out there.
I implore you to end this thread and find something else to talk ad nauseum about.
@anemone
I implore you to end this thread and find something else to talk ad nauseum about.
@anemone
You weren't tagged. But I will make sure you aren't tagged in any post I make in this thread from now on.
@Hyolobrika You're right, I wasn't, but to keep seeing headers for posts from a thread I muted is lowkey irritating.
Wdym by headers? In Husky when I mute a thread, it just disappears. Same thing happens in Soapbox IIRC.
@Hyolobrika I also see them on Pleroma FE but I'm having to remind myself why they're muted.
There should be a note by the header then.
Fediverse in general doesn't have good enough tooling for personal moderation IME
Fediverse in general doesn't have good enough tooling for personal moderation IME
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@condret@shitposter.world @Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net @thatbrickster@shitposter.world
Detention isn't even a thing here and I don't see the point of it. The education system sucks in other ways but it's something lol. They just tell the parents if their kid misbehaves.