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What makes me angriest about covid is that we allowed the very worst of us, a loud, bullying minority, dictate how our governments would handle the pandemic. We did not mask long enough, no covid money went to improving indoor air quality, we allowed anti-vaxxers to dictate public safety measures and make their choice our choice. Measures we did take eliminated a strain of flu. If our governments hadn’t caved, we could’ve stopped covid before all the mutations.

@CStamp
> If our governments hadn’t caved, we could’ve stopped covid before all the mutations

Our experience in Aotearoa suggests otherwise. Our government maintained lockdowns, mask mandates, vaccine mandates and everything else you advocate in this thread. Committed to a consistent goal of elimination, despite the huge protest occupation in Parliament grounds

It worked for a while. But in the end, the mutations got around all these measures. So continuing with them was pointless.

Correction;

@CStamp
> no covid money went to improving indoor air quality

I don't think our govt did this either. Of all the mitigations you mention, this is the most likely to give us bang for buck. After all, it's well established that our risk of catching 'rona outside is vanishingly small.

Bonus points for being much less disruptive to people's lives and civil liberties than lockdowns etc. While likely mitigating the spread of other respiratory infections like cold and 'flu.

@sj_zero

@jeffcliff
> Continuing them wasn't pointless

Then why did the NZ government stop doing them? They stopped doing them because they they had stopped working. The newer variants were more infectious, and they were spreading anyway. Ending lockdowns etc made no difference.

They were also, for the same reasons, less dangerous. So the argument for heavily curtailing civil liberties was much weaker. Also, the courts found that at least some vaccine mandates were illegal, so there's that.

@CStamp

I mean holy-christ-on-a-stick @jeffcliff, even the CCP couldn't maintain its lockdowns forever without provoking huge street protests, on the mainland!

I'm not sure people who haven't lived there really understand how significant that was. Chinese people *do not* protest central government policy. They just don't. It's not necessarily safe.

Remember that doctor? Charged with "spreading rumours" for talking to colleagues in other parts of the country about the novel virus he'd noticed?

@CStamp

@strypey @CStamp and we had our share of activation nonsense too, including the crazy protest that occupied Parliament grounds. I feel we never got back to sanity after that.

@rogerparkinson
> I feel we never got back to sanity after that

I'm not sure that's a healthy way to frame the polarisation problem. I know good people on both sides of the divide. Both are convinced the other side is drowned in misinformation, losing all reason.

Both sides are at least partially right too. I regularly see cargo-cults claiming that making everyone wear masks will make the 'rona go away, like it did during the early lockdowns. So it's not just the "vaccine hoax" lot.

@CStamp

@strypey @CStamp if we wore masks, we would have a lot less of it. I may be in that cargo cult.

@rogerparkinson @strypey If we had all worn masks for another month or two, we might not be in the position we now are. :(

@rogerparkinson
> if we wore masks, we would have a lot less of it

No, you're not. That's a nuanced position. It's a falsifiable claim that reasonable people can debate, based on evidence for the efficacy of masking.

I chose the phrase cargo cult carefully. I'm talking about faith-based claims that reenacting 2020 will give us the same results, or better.

@CStamp
> If we had all worn masks for another month or two, we might not be in the position we now are

Again;

https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/113336927878911429

@jeffcliff
> the point is to eradicate covid

I share this goal. But ...

> we are going to end this pandemic. do NOT interfere

... sounds like cargo cult talk. Are you also going to end the 'flu pandemic that's been going on for a century? What about the common cold pandemic that's been going on for millennia?

How?

Coronaviruses are *very* infectious. We're still here to complain about them because as they get more infectious, they get less deadly. Like the 'flu. Like the 'rona.

@CStamp

@jeffcliff
> the data from NZ is super clear on this.  There was practically no transmission until the rules were loosened

Citation please. Because this claim is contradicted by what happened.

The total lockdown of Auckland in 2021, with cops on all the borders, failed to stop the new variants spreading. The lockdown was extended to Waikato, where I live. The variants spread to other areas anyway, and eventually to the other main island.

Lockdowns ended because they stopped working.

@CStamp

(2/?)

@jeffcliff
> What changed the pathogenicity of the virus was the availability of vaccines

Citation please. Because I think this too, is bollox.

"Omicron and its subvariants have generally caused milder disease than strains that surfaced early in the pandemic, such as Alpha and Delta—and the symptoms haven’t changed, Dr. Roberts says."

Scott Roberts, MD, infectious diseases specialist, Yale Medicine

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/3-things-to-know-about-xec-the-latest-covid-strain

(3/3)

@jeffcliff
> The antivaxxers pushing those lines should have been exterminated. People who use lawfare to interfere with public health are not compatible with civilized society and cannot be allowed to destroy it

OK, either you're taking the piss, or you're dangerously insane. I *really* hope you're taking the piss 😬

@strypey @jeffcliff@shitposter.world No reason to end masking, no reason to not require updated indoor air quality, no reason to not mandate vaccinations for people to work or go to school.

@CStamp
> No reason to end masking

There was no evidence it was still effective enough to justify compulsion. Once the compulsion lifted, most people whose not to 🤷‍♂️

> no reason to not require updated indoor air quality

I agree with this, see other post.

> no reason to not mandate vaccinations for people to work or go to school

See the point about masking. Also courts in NZ and a number of other jurisdictions have ruled that mandating vaccines is illegal. As they should be.