FBXL Social

I'm seriously considering making an account on Bluesky so I can ask people what the appeal of it is.

@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net the appeal is that it's like twitter pre-musk

@anemone But then why bother making it """""'"'decentralized""""""""?

@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net so in theory (I'm skeptical in practice) it's not vulnerable the same way twitter is. I think they're also supposed to be fixing an issue with fedi: non-portable accounts

@anemone @Hyolobrika hubzilla already has nomadic identity :>

@anemone vulnerable to what?

@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net a hostile takeover of the main server

@georgia @anemone @Hyolobrika nobody actually cares about nomadic identity. As you said, there have been implementations for years.

@Hyolobrika it’s like lefty twitter used to be, kinda boring, but that’s where they huge crowd comes from

@lain@lain.com @georgia@netzsphaere.xyz @Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net enough people care enough to keep implementing it but yeah i don't think the average user knows what it is

@anemone from people like Musk?
How?

@lain But then why not Mastodon/fediverse?

@Hyolobrika I don’t understand the question

@Hyolobrika @lain people are lazy and only care about marketing/what other people use.

the average user doesnt get the difference between a imdb comment page and facebook.

@Hyolobrika@social.fbxl.net you can move your account to another server in theory but I don’t think that would actually happen

@anemone @Hyolobrika so still shit

Those types of people crave centralization and authority over everything else... and Bluesky was "from that same guy when it was perfect and the state ran everything."

@Hyolobrika @anemone Because this is what people want.
New centralized social networks can't compete with Twitter and other incumbents. They can offer slightly better moderation and slightly better UI, but this is not enough. The network size is far more important.

Decentralization, on the other hand, is a strong competitive advantage. Everyone wants more control and more choice, so startups have to promise that. Of course, the easiest way is "fake until you make it" aka "progressive decentralization". Every VC-funded web3 social startup did that, with predictable outcomes. Eventually people learned to avoid them, so the marketing strategy has changed and now we're in the era of "web3 but without blockchain". Same scams under a different name.

@lain Plenty of left-wing people here to talk to. And it's more decentralised.
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@anemone what if the relay is taken over?

@grillchen @lain I want to know what they will say.

@lain @anemone @georgia I care about nomadic identity. Especially when it doesn't require the assent of the previous admin.

@Hyolobrika @anemone @georgia of course it’s not literally nobody

@Hyolobrika yeah, that’s not an asset for most people who want to join blue sky

@lain But there were left-wing servers here before blue sky even existed. So why wouldn't they just come here? Is it because they find it too hard to choose an instance? Is it because of fediblock? That makes sense actually.

@Hyolobrika they don’t care about decentralization, they care about “twitter without nazis”, so getting drive-by replies by non-lefties is a downside to them

The more echo-chamber the better as far as they're concerned. Especially facing the political backlash they would like to ignore.

@Hyolobrika "grass was greener back then" the website. it's literally just twitter. it's not even actually comepletely decentralized because it still requires a central identity server (same as matrix lmao). If either one of these go down both matrix and bsky would break since nobody else is hosting these since neither made these federated. if i understand correctly how that works

@Hyolobrika for reference, "relay" is the name of this in blue sky, and "sydent" is the matrix identity server

@thendrix @lain @Hyolobrika
This.
They all see 2020 as the golden period - where everything was a giant echo chamber and any contrarian opinion was silenced.

@vaartis @Hyolobrika matrix doesn't require a central identity server. synapse has its own authorization service

@meowski @Hyolobrika well, I guess it's not strictly required for matrix now..? I feel like it used to be the case that you couldn't set up an account without a phone number which went through an identity server, but I must be misremembering because I cannot find any proof now. I also see that someone else implemented an identity server that federates.

@meowski @Hyolobrika oh, right, emails also went through the identity server when setting up. Maybe that changed? You'd definitely need an email or a phone to register and that went through an identity server, they even say on GitHub they run one and you don't need to.

@vaartis @Hyolobrika i have been using it for around 1-2 years and don't remember anything like that, unless you're talking about matrix.org (which is just one public server). it could have been something prior that i'm not aware of

they are switching to oauth apparently (a matrix implementation of it, not google/etc SSO)

@lain Well, the standard "light fedi" way of dealing with that is defederation. And while I'm not on one of those instances, from what I can see from viewing threads where one of them gets piled on by vermin, it seems to solve the problem, albeit with some collateral damage.

More flexible moderation and self-moderation (blocking, muting) tools and more due process for admin moderation would be nice.

Have you seen any of my posts about flexible filter lists?
Instead of blocking and muting, I want to be able to write scripts consisting of a collection of "filters" which would each consist of a pattern followed by an action. The pattern would be a boolean expression that could contain variables related to the post content, media, author, instance of origin, title/cw field etc and would support regex matching. The action would be to hide all media, hide specific media (potentially based on the aforementioned variables), hide posts, with or without leaving a header that tells you that something was hidden and being able to program what that header says per-filter.
Should also be able to import filter scripts written by people you trust the judgement.

This sounds a lot like MRFs, I know, but AFAIK you can't let end users write MRFs for security reasons (?) so maybe a domain-specific language would be better? It would certainly be easier/more fun to write.

With such flexible tools for users and admins they could do things like block/ban an entire server *except* for a handful of users that are actually OK. Wanting to do that is what lead me to this idea in the first place.

@vaartis The identity server in Bluesky is https://plc.directory/ (but you can also host your own) and I don't think Matrix has one, at least not now.

@lain @anemone @georgia @Hyolobrika Nomadic identity? You mean my username?