@wjmaggos@liberal.city tell us again about how people didn't immediately celebrate a murder
my argument is not that nobody wanted him dead, but that even the vast majority of those who he said mean shit about, did not. They all wanted him and others who did that to stop. While they empathize with the pain of his family, they are also relieved that a guy who inspired others to hate them wouldn't be doing that anymore.
Somehow the entire right now recognizes how saying mean things about someone can hurt and should stop. Maybe even use force to make that happen. Weird.
@wjmaggos
Shoe made the distinction between speech and physical violence pretty clear, yet here you are blurring the line again.
I am an openly gay man on one of the wilder parts of the internet. I catch mean words frequently. My corporeal being remains unaffected.
I also often argue libertarian, sometimes even conservative, opinions to leftists.
I know which side would rather see me in the dirt.
@SirSeatSitter
why is sir seat sitter using the term faggos etc less bad than people saying they're glad he's dead? neither of us is actually committing violence or even advocating it. just words.
I'm a lefty and don't get as offended as many lefties on fedi. great to know some gay people don't get as offended. but we both should understand others differ & they aren't weak for that etc.
can I ask why you aren't open gay in your profile here? I've seen many on the nicer parts of fedi.
@wjmaggos@liberal.city @chanon@noauthority.social WJ Faggos, I ask again, have you watched the full video or not, you manipulative fuck
11 days ago from the Charlie Kirk YouTube channel
@wjmaggos
Because someone actually died, and very recently. And he was pretty normie and wanted to talk. If they're happy a normie died, they'd probably be happy if I died, simply because I don't agree with them. If someone calls me or you a faggot, sure it's not great, but we're still ok.
I am open here. If it's relevant, I don't hide it. It doesn't come up often because it's just not that important. Maybe if I were more boring, that would be a more prominent characteristic.
@SirSeatSitter
check all his YouTube video titles. the guy didn't want to talk. he wanted to go dunk on lefties and minorities and then get a ton of attention from people who already agreed with him. it's online troll culture taking over the old GOP.
but you don't shoot them. I tell my fellow lefties you don't even punch Nazis. you have to get people to start depriving them of attention for this crap. that means getting conservatives to not watch them. I know, not gonna happen.
@wjmaggos
I truly have no interest in simping for the guy's youtube career, but he always started conversations respectfully. The college students that remained earnest and respectful didn't get "dunked on." And even so, it doesn't justify murder.
I agree with nonviolence. The fact is that we have to share this country and this planet, at least for now. There simply must be some ground rules, and talking instead of shooting seems like a no-brainer to me.
@SirSeatSitter
of course. that's not the question imo. to me it's about recognizing that you also shouldn't antagonize people. that's also bad. you shouldn't go around saying you're glad he's dead but you also shouldn't say words that you don't need to in order to make your point. and not just letting people do that and make money, but all of us pushing back on it.
@chanon@noauthority.social @wjmaggos@liberal.city dont let Will get away with not watching the shoe0nhead video haha
what's haha about that? it's a problem for our civics that so many think it's funny to be mean to people.
you are irredeemably full of shit. "dunking" only occurred because the people who confronted him are morally and intellectually bankrupt. but then again, they're largely young democrats at institutions of "higher learning"... so of course they are.
neither of us is actually committing violence or even advocating it.
Don't pretend there weren't thousands of 'do jk next'; 'do joe rogan next'; 'do trump next'; 'do his wife and kids next' posts and videos. One side is gleefully advocating further killing.
And yes, celebrating is also advocating because it's logically incoherent to simultaneously argue that it is bad to do, but it is good when it happens.
@wjmaggos
Agree that antagonizing people isn't great, but the level of harm it does is being massively overstated.
Murder? Clearly worse, I'm sure we agree.
Celebrating murder? Sure, still speech, but it's so much worse. There are whack jobs out there. The last thing our culture needs is an undercurrent of approval for such violence.
@SirSeatSitter
murder is much worse and celebrating murder is worse than the standard shit said to lefties/minorities.
again, I've told lefties punching Nazis is not ok. lefties regularly complain about what they call liberals saying that. I never see the right telling each other to tone down their shit. Fuentes had dinner with Trump. at most, it's laughed off.
and the anti left cruel language is endless. hate crimes are happening, just not targeting celebs.
@wjmaggos @SirSeatSitter @chanon
I fail to see any meanness. Why do people keep saying Charlie was hateful or mean? I don't see that. He voiced strong opinions but that's not the same thing.
@nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
I feel like I've addressed this.
yes some celebrated. most were glad he wouldn't be endangering them and people they love anymore. I cannot prove it but I do believe that saying cruel shit about groups leads to more hate crimes that never make the national news.
we all have to push to tone down this shit.
imo this framing is mean, from his YT 10 days ago.
@wjmaggos@liberal.city @nicholas@aklp.club @chanon@noauthority.social
you have not addressed the shoe0nhead video that started this whole initial thread
@SirSeatSitter @chanon @nicholas
the headline being "These People Are Sick".
@wjmaggos @SirSeatSitter @chanon
You think that's mean? It's just data and the logical extrapolations from said data. What's the mean part?
Edit accidentally posted too soon, deleted and redrafted.
he wouldn't be endangering them
This is nonsensical. You can't seriously argue that one guy making oblique references to some lifestyles being a sin in his religion on a poscast causes real world harm but thousands of people openly advocating for the murder of more or less half the population is innocuous because it's a small percentage of the population. A little bit of consistency would be appreciated.
@Vox
Er, that was to Maggos, but I tapped the wrong reply button. Whatever.
@wjmaggos @SirSeatSitter
@chanon @Vox @wjmaggos @SirSeatSitter At the end of the day Charlie was killed, MANY on the left felt comfortable enough to cheer his death. The rest of the left has resorted to “Well, it’s kind of the rights fault.” That is unacceptable and will ultimately lead to the claim “Most political violence comes from the right” becoming an undeniable fact. I say this with love.
@nam
Fully agree. So many have become so self-righteous that they can't identify hatred in their own hearts. Dehumanizing the opposition can get ugly, fast.
@Vox @wjmaggos @SirSeatSitter
@chanon @nam @Vox @SirSeatSitter
I posted the stats in this thread. more violence is done towards the same groups who are often dehumanized on the right. I'll accept Kirk was more known than these victims and so you feel it more. but not to the friends/families of these victims.
so when you tell me that being cruel re Kirk's death will lead to more violence, I will ask you why conservatives didn't stop saying cruel shit after these people were hurt. it's been tit for tat for years already.
@wjmaggos @chanon @Vox @SirSeatSitter I don’t see those stats in this thread. But do the stats conclude that the violence against these groups is being perpetrated by right wing individuals and then celebrated when they are killed by right wingers?
@nam @chanon @Vox @SirSeatSitter
no. the stats are that many are victims of hate crimes. and my argument is then that just like having to hear people are glad your loved one is dead is wrong, so is spreading the kind of hate that you know leads to many more unknown people being hurt regularly. that it must be horrible to hear that shit and be someone or know someone hurt because of who they are, not even what they chose to say. to know lots of people would do it again. but yes, it's different.
@wjmaggos @chanon @Vox @SirSeatSitter no, this equates words with violence and is ultimately a straw man.
@nam @chanon @Vox @SirSeatSitter
the people who say they are happy Kirk is dead are not doing violence. they are not advocating anymore violence than people who say we need to get rid of some group.
both are being antagonistic as hell tho and I can see how people hear them say that and act on it. and either way, it's not the people who said that's fault, but I think we'd all be better off if they did not.
@wjmaggos
I think saying "I hate faggots" and "I'm glad some sick fuck blew Charlie away" are going to precipitate very different results, culturally speaking. I'm absolutely okay with calling for an end to the latter before the former. And I say that as a member of one of the demographics that's supposedly put at risk by the former.
@nam @Vox @SirSeatSitter
@chanon @nam @Vox @SirSeatSitter
a fair comparison would use the same language. either I hate both or I'm glad they are both being killed. users on jerk fedi tell me to kill myself. doxing happens. I get why people on jerk fedi are much less likely to post personal info than on the rest of fedi. and yet the rest of fedi is told they should just accept having to block multiple people per day saying cruel shit. asking people to be nice on social media is a new experience for me with MAGA types.
I never see the right telling each other to tone down their shit
Why are you denying the existence of Libertarians? Civil rights, non-aggression; 'tone it down' is basically our whole deal, and a whole lot of us identify broadly as 'right'. You're literally committing Libertarian genocide RN.
@nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
there are anti Trump Republicans too. I'm talking about people in a camp telling others in the camp that "we've gone too far". and I'm talking about rhetoric.
I know Dave Smith broke from Trump re Iran etc. And Massie and Rand Paul. Awesome but different.
did you guys notice Sir Seat calling me faggos and say anything? again it matters most between people who care what each other say. there's a server here that I wish wouldn't block me. but you speak out.
@thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
he was needlessly antagonistic. compare how people used to argue before the algos. people know the shortcut to attention is emotion, not original argument. and some on the left are playing exactly the same game saying the most horrible shit about Kirk. it's obviously working.
all of it should be legal, not censored on social media and not lead to cancel culture. but still people should just not do it. and we should try to deter it.
While virtually everyone admits Charlie was generally cordial and respectful to folks at his live events, he often had a more acerbic and crass attitude on his podcast. The handful of quotes of his being circulated as particularly damning are either misquotes or taken out of context, however he did make jokes in bad taste and say unkind and even demeaning things about democrats, LGBTQIA2S+ individuals, and affirmative action beneficiaries. I was not a listener to his show, these are just some examples I have heard for myself since his death while investigating the allegation against him.
William's view is that kirk was 'spreading hate', and 'hate' leads to 'hate crimes' e.g., violence against minorities and democrats. Ergo: kirk was 'endangering' people with his mean words; Q.E.D.
@nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon @thetruthaddict
why are such mean words that he said ok but conservatives now claim mean words about him justify cancel culture and maybe government force?
I don't know what you mean by "ok". I was not a kirk fan, I don't endorse his statements, I characterized them as "unkind, acerbic, crass, and demeaning", I'm not sure how more forcefully I could express my personal disdain for some of his commentary. As distasteful as I found them though, they were no justification for his cold-blooded murder, or for celebration of his cold-blooded murder.
As for government force, I assume you're referring to pam bondi. As far as I'm aware, she was universally lambasted by all quarters of the right for trying to invoke "hate speech". I am not aware of any appreciable number of folks on the right who want anyone put in jail for their ghoulish tiktoks or social media posts.
As far as "cancel culture" goes, there is a very big difference between dredging up a years old off-color joke someone made on Twitter and starting a social media pile-on to get them fired over it, and people not wanting lunatics who have just publicly announced that they think they would be more than justified in murdering approximately half of the US population walking around the office behind them with access to scissors. I don't begrudge any co-worker of anyone celebrating a political assassination telling HR about that liability issue. Though I do find the website and doxx sleuthing to be very cringe. I get the turnabout is fair play thing, but I'm more of a rise above it guy myself.
@nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon @thetruthaddict
I'm not sure we disagree much but seem to be talking past each other.
no killing, be nice, don't do any of the cancel stuff if they aren't saying anything like it's ok to kill mean people etc.
@thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
imo hurt feelings matter, just less than violence or even unknown and unpopular truths. but being a jerk today can get you ahead thanks to algos and it's making our culture worse. less able to work together to unfuck what the rich have rigged.
you can control reactions to a great degree but there's a reason they all do it. the odds are it will have the intended effect. imo the full Kirk strategy was using upset student reactions to go viral.
@wjmaggos@liberal.city @nicholas@aklp.club @chanon@noauthority.social
Maggos for real on a serious note please watch that video if you want to gain some empathy and understanding about how people are feeling. Or are you just LARPing and don't actually care about gaining understanding? If you can't entertain that 20 minute video from a populist left winger, you truly are lost my friend. Sorry for calling you Faggos.
@thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
the endangering comes about imo when people say stuff like those people are a problem etc. others take action. imo you should be able to say that but shouldn't. make your point another way. and yes it's still the one who acted violent who is solely to blame.
@SirSeatSitter @chanon @nicholas
I watched the video. Opinions unchanged.
@wjmaggos
Eh, there's dickheads like Destiny who have said everything short of directly calling for it. Remember all that horrible shit he said about Compertore, the firefighter whose brains were blown out in front of his wife and daughters when someone tried to kill Trump in PA? Destiny said it was good, and he deserved it for attending a Trump rally. Seems a bit on the irresponsible side, IMO.
@thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
@chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
Afaik the law distinguishes between direct incitement and everything else. you can't have it both ways. wanting to allow people to say horrible stuff about groups but not about Kirk.
Saying horrible stuff about groups does not necessarily target them
Saying it about individuals does
@wjmaggos
I'm aware of the law, and so is he. He's fanning the flames to the furthest extent he legally can, and he's a piece of shit for it.
While he's the worst that comes to mind, there are a number of figures on the left that do everything short of direct calls to action, and we see shit like this precipitate.
The right hurting feelings just doesn't compare.
@thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
@chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
the entire MAGA movement was built off this antagonistic shit. Trump was not the kind of asshole he is now years ago. He tried to run before 2016. He took on the alt right stuff and took advantage of the algos and reshaped the GOP. He took advantage of the hate ginned up by Rush Limbaugh. I wish you guys could see this.
@wjmaggos @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
I'll never understand the obsession on the left with feelings and "mental health", whatever that means. We have the easiest, best lives RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW of any time and any place in all of history. There's less war and less absolute poverty than ever. But it's apparently the nature of some people to need something to complain about, so since we're mostly fed and mostly safe, instead of being grateful, let's whine about feelings.
@wjmaggos @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
The perceived "danger" is because people have become soft and delicate. People used to be resilient. I guess hardship is valuable.
@Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
you're changing the subject but I generally agree re mental health. spend time with others. volunteer. that's the fix. thinking about it makes it worse.
but that's diff imo than being mean to people. than trying to make them feel unsafe. and we're seeing conservatives seemingly understand that now when the left says mean things about Kirk.
somehow it's ok to say this confrontational shit online I guess cause folks are somewhat anonymous.
Too much writing lol
Honestly, his videos weren't my pot of tea. He always struck me as kind of a dick, making a big show of going on college campuses and arguing with dumb college kids. I know a lot of people have told me he was the nicest guy you'd ever meet but that wasn't my impression based solely on the media presence.
And you know what? No one's going to have a single problem with anything I said above. I didn't celebrate his death, I didn't justify his death, I didn't willfully lie about the circumstances to make my narrative look better, and I certainly didn't say who needs to be murdered next.
That's the problem with modernists. They can only see in black and white. They don't have a choice but to flatten complexity. That's why Charlie Kirk is dead, because they could only see disagreement as the exact same thing as calls for genocide, I know that he is dead and they are getting pushed back for calling for the deaths of more people they can only see mild criticism of the man and hysterical celebration of his death as the exact same thing because murder must be justified in the former case, and absolutely zero consequences must be justified in the latter.
I think a lot of people have been confused as to why over last week or so they've seen a lot of posts from me working through the implications of things like Jimmy Kimmels show being canceled or the consequences have come about for the people who were celebrating the political assassination and calling for more. It's because the world isn't digital, and the answers aren't simple or permanent. Even Buddhist monks invented Kung Fu to protect their temples.
The justification for murdering Kirk was essentially that by saying mean words he was literally Mass murdering people. Now these mean words tended to be things like "men and women are different" or "you shouldn't hire people solely on the basis of race because otherwise you're going to get people who aren't very good at their jobs because you hide them based on race," which has to be flattened because otherwise you look stupid. Meanwhile, people who are cheering for the political assassination, and calling for more political assassinations, they are saying that they're free speech is being violated for what they are doing but the reality is we're not talking about it calling Charlie a dick, we're talking about cheering for his murder and calling for more murders.
All these people pleading free speech sure seem to have different standards for themselves than others because every one of the Free speech warriors was on top of the "disinformation and misinformation must be regulated" train, and now regulating disinformation is misinformation caused someone to lose their job and instead of celebrating they're acting as if it was a travesty.
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@Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
it's because online is different. IRL most wouldn't say it. those who say it online hide their identity. but people also know they can be doxed. again there's a big difference between most accounts on jerk fedi and the rest of fedi and how people interact. on the rest of fedi, it's much more like strangers meeting on the street. here it's much more antagonistic.
but I've said this all many times before.
@wjmaggos
I know exactly what you mean, but I don't think it rises to the same level. He's kind of a dick, sure, but he is not fanning the flames of political violence in the US.
Compare his reaction to RBG's death with Destiny's commentary on Comperatore's. RBG was a direct adversary of his, while Comperatore was just a random guy that Destiny didn't even know. This is the contrast I'm trying to highlight. The Left needs to chill the fuck out.
@thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
@chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
everybody needs to chill the fuck out. again I say that publicly. don't punch Nazis. people on the left don't like me saying that. my server gets blocked. you guys see the shit that regularly gets posted on NAS and other servers and don't say shit afaik.
@chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
Destiny doesn't speak for me. all the lefties that the algo puts in front of you to get angry at my side, they don't speak for me. I know some pretty shitty accounts on here and know they don't speak for you all. Compare Destiny to Kirk or Fuentes.
Trump was elected as were all the Dem politicians. Compare their antagonism. For me, Bernie most closely represents me. I voted for Cornel West for president.
@wjmaggos @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
It's okay to say online because most same people don't put the first it's of relevance in the opinions of anonymous strangers. Truly confident, secure people can withstand contradicting opinions IRL too. People who condone or encourage violence are loathsome, but the effect they have on sufficiently tough personalities is nil.
Not a change of subject. YOU brought up the "hurting feelings is important" drivel. Only if you're a wuss...
@Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
so the people upset about lefties being mean to Kirk now are wusses. cool.
if somebody said something horrible to you while you were walking with your husband, would he do anything?
@wjmaggos @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
He might laugh. He knows I'm not a snowflake.
Again, the people talking smack about Charlie are disgusting and beneath my notice. If someone is hurt by those words, they need to learn to, in the words of Mel Robbins, "let them". You can't change them. You can't manage them. But you can refuse to let it ruin your day.
"Sticks and stones", "suck it up Buttercup", pick your aphorism.
@wjmaggos
I'd happily compare Destiny to Kirk. Know who's going to look more empathetic and compassionate every time? Kirk, by lightyears. As much as I disagreed with him, he didn't wish misfortune on his opponents. He didn't revel in death. His talking events may have been provocative, but ultimately he just showed up to talk, and that kid killed him because he couldn't win the argument.
This is the contrast I am talking about.
@thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
@chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
so then Destiny is more like Fuentes. I'm sure there's someone more like Kirk on the left too. I don't know all these people. I like Greenwald, Hedges, BJG, Aaron Mate etc.
@Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon
She said fuck your feelings @nam.
@wjmaggos @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon @nam
@nam doesn't strike me as particularly fragile. You, otoh REALLY should pick up a copy of Mel Robbins' book.
@Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon @nam
what's your full name? what town do you live in? got any pics of your family?
again, compare jerk fedi to the rest of social media. the people who you call fragile post this stuff on social media while the "tough guys" do not. generally.
@wjmaggos
Last president used government to shut up people he didn't like too. So did Obama's admin. I want to return to a place where that matters, but principles have been disregarded for so long, that one side returning to them simply puts them at a disadvantage.
I think there has to be some kind of agreement to return to them, which requires lowering temps and having more conversations. Shooting the debate-me-guy was an escalation, sadly.
@Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @nam
@chanon @Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @nam
based on this logic, I should stop telling the left to not punch Nazis cause you guys won't do shit to lower the temp. perfect.
@thetruthaddict @chanon @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
Briahna Joy Gray
@wjmaggos @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @chanon @nam
You can find my full name and home address at complexcandor.com on the "collaborate" page. I do not live in fear. For professional reasons, my husband cannot afford any online presence, but there used to be pics of me and the kiddos all over the facebags, until my account was hacked beyond recovery and closed permanently.
What do you mean by "jerk fedi"? Do you mean NAS? When have I ever been a jerk?
@wjmaggos @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @nam
The "left" (pfft) doesn't even know what "nazi" ( or fascist, for that matter) means. They think it's anyone with whom they disagree.
@wjmaggos @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @nam
Here's a short vocabulary lesson: "Nazi" is a contraction of National Socialist. Most of the conservatives accused of being Nazi have the exact OPPOSITE of socialist leanings. The "left" (again, pfft) are ignorant.
re: Too much writing lol
I am a free speech warrior
When you call a guy a Nazi, and you have set up the background that killing Nazis is good, that is close enough to incitement to be dangerous.
But I think everyone should be able to critique his works
The problem as usual is the most people are dunces and easily manipulated by convenient lies, so no one will allow much free speech.
It was better when we had a caste of educated high-IQ people to do all the thinking and voting.
re: Too much writing lol
I was initially skeptical of Kirk, until he started embracing Calvinist and then genetic determinist positions.
As far as I can tell, organized religion is insane throughout. The sanest form may be the Jewish religion because it is tied to culture and ethnicity, so does not become obsessive like the Buddhist, Christian, and Islamic versions.
Same with Hinduism. It's an ethnoreligion.
You are intentionally and dishonesty conflating saying mean things and advocating violence.
Edit: that's unfair of me, it's early and I haven't had my coffee. I don't know your motivation and I shouldn't speculate.
re: Too much writing lol
I threw this one up a few days ago
https://farthestright.substack.com/p/free-speech
@nicholas @SirSeatSitter @Vox @chanon @nam @thetruthaddict
shockingly many on the left misunderstand the right and obviously nobody should think that represents the diversity of opinions on the left.
@Vox @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @nam
I have had a guy on my show who wouldn't mind be called a Nazi. he supported removing lots of people from our NATION and then having lots of SOCIALISM for everybody left.
that's not the view of most people who call themselves socialist and say they are the left. nor do most nationalists want to eventually have socialism. they tend to consider themselves conservative.
meanness and threats don't facilitate these discussions.
@wjmaggos @chanon @Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter “Just believe trannies are real women, and we’ll stop killing you guys,”
@nam @chanon @Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
cause I can't find people on the right who want to kill minorities and lefties.
I have publicly made the argument for lefties to compromise on trans issues. imo we need more conservatives to do that on their side, to not advocate kicking them out of the country.
all while we advocate peace.
but please tell me what you think of Vox saying you need to toughen up. I so rarely find disagreement among y'all.
@wjmaggos @chanon @Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter The leftist position has become increasingly effeminate, so that might be what she’s referring but you if you think I’m reading all these comments and figure out who they are responding to, you are mistaken.
@nam @wjmaggos @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
I was NOT calling you out, @nam. I was saying that the whole world has an increasingly thin skin and would do well to allow what someone SAYS to bead off. There are more important issues. Actions speak louder than words and such. @wjmaggos has a knack for misinterpreting motives and twisting intentions.
@wjmaggos
No, you and I want the same thing. But it's obvious to me that the sides are more interested in "winning". I think the difference is the right is better at acknowledging their hypocrisy, while the left has thought their shit don't stink since 2008.
But either way, I hope you and I get the more civil and principled future we want, even if we perpetually disagree and argue. And I hope I'm still free to be mean behind a pseudonym.
@Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @nam
@chanon @Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter @nam
would it be cool if these lefties were all behind pseudonyms doing all the same shit? would conservatives be less upset?
or if there were big servers here that facilitated constantly new accounts to troll the few public conservatives and say die fascist? sorry but I think those servers would get blocked too.
@Vox @wjmaggos @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter Thank you, I am aware of Maggos’ divisive tactics.
@nam @Vox @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
it's the same complaint. I only made it explicit.
I can find one or two examples on the right
The majority of democrat poll respondents said assassination is justified
One of these things is not like the other and I'm tired of pretending they are.
@wjmaggos @chanon @Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter Most leftists are. I had to take my real name off of most of my socials after unhinged leftists tried to get me fired. Luckily, I worked for a small company that knew me. That was the start of the “Shut up or die” camp of the left. Now they’ve taken it to the next level, are scared for retribution and it’s “Let’s talk about how you have contributed to this environment.” Shove it up your ass.
@nam @chanon @Vox @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
please consider how your experience could parallel that of some minorities or others on the left to make them then think most conservatives are evil. why they think the best compromise is to have the social media presence they want but not federate with conservatives.
but I'll try to make that my last empathy roleplaying game for today.
@wjmaggos @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
It's not the same, though, William. You've continually advocated for censorship in the guise of "toning down the rhetoric". Whatever lipstick you put on that pig, it's still an abridgement of free speech, AND the lack of faith in grownups to have the wisdom and ability to discern for themselves what to allow to spur them to action. Kids may need to be somewhat moderated, but adults shouldn't need speech nannies.
@wjmaggos @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
I'm a CLASSIC liberal, which, these days, effectively makes me a conservative. I have CLOSE friends and family who are woke AF. Most people aren't evil, left or right (although I despise that dichotomy). We're just people, man. My very good neighbor is socialist/communist. So are my children. So what? We have common ground. We take care of each other. ANYONE can do that.
@taylan @SirSeatSitter @chanon
This is a bit complicated and a long conversation. He's on a server that federates with lots of servers with accounts that love to tag people with shit like die fag. I think we should have lots of free speech but not tolerate abuse. Those server admins disagree with me. Etc etc.
@Vox @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
classic liberal tends to imply very supportive of the free market so I don't use that term. complicated.
but I don't think our difference is on wanting good discourse. nobody has to be on this network. nobody has to participate on any network.
have dinner parties and invite a diverse group of opinions. that won't work long-term if you don't deal with the assholes.
imo many on jerk fedi know what will happen and want it that way.
@wjmaggos @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
Please define "jerk fedi". You use the term a lot, and I don't want to make assumptions. I'm on the noauthority channel, but I try not to be a jerk. On purpose. Not that I'm entirely un-provokable, but I don't generally cuss people out or call names or anything. Also, can you recommend not-jerk-fedi instances that still provide intellectual stimulation? Not that I object to cute pets or great recipes, but I like complex discourse.
@wjmaggos @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
And yes, that implication applies to me. Free market, free speech, individualism... to what about free markets do you object? I don't mind if it's complicated. I like complexity.
@Vox @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
many use dark fedi for those servers that are largely defederated by the bigger/main servers. but dark makes them sound edgy/cool, a branding they appreciate. they want everybody thinking that they are where the dangerous truth gets said. NAS, post, SPC etc.
imo that's ridiculous. while some will block for "bad ideas", mostly it's about unwanted tagging. jerk spam. not policing your own server for harassing others.
I want compromise.
@wjmaggos @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
Is a server the same as an instance? Is NAS considered "dark"? Is "jerk" the word you use instead of "dark"? I don't feel like I'm either dark or a jerk, so I object to the label if that's what you mean. I'm not going to lose sleep over it though. I'm not here to manage your opinions.
I rarely get unwanted tags. I join conversations freely. Not much spam. Just podcast announcements. I object to anything called "policing".
@Vox @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
in my experience, everybody actually wants a mixed economy when you dig into it. me too. so it depends on where you want to go from where we are. since I think the US would be better with universal health care, I'm not gonna use that term. but there are a million things in an economy like that.
@Vox @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
server=instance
it's policing a party for jerks, as I said above. if your admin doesn't do that, you'll have jerks on your server even if you are not one yourself. do you never see what I get tagged with? again, the issue is not having to deal with them as an individual but the kind of party it will become over time. and not just your server, but all of fedi if those servers are not defederated. not boring, not jerky is my goal.
@wjmaggos @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
I don't object to common defense or general welfare (by which I mean infrastructure, not unearned entitlements). That's where it ends.
You're responsible for your health. Commit to it. Nutrition, exercise, and lifestyle are your responsibility. I object to paying for diabetics, smokers, drug users, reckless drivers, sluts, base jumpers, etc. And don't EVEN get me started on hospitalized birth. NOT MY FAULT, NOT MY RESPONSIBILITY.
@wjmaggos @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
How could I possibly see what you're tagged with?
I can see this. I don't follow Dame B. you wouldn't have to follow the jerk but just click on what I posted and see replies.
@Vox @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
uh huh. not the point.
I don't see you in this thread at all. It was a tech question.
I've met Boolysteed IRL and I don't see any jerkiness there.
@wjmaggos @nam @chanon @thetruthaddict @nicholas @SirSeatSitter
You're the one who brought up universal health care, so if it's not the point, why mention it?