Gambling is bad, prostitution is bad, etc etc. They are also always going to happen, so concentrate on keeping it safe and siloed away from daily life for most people.
@sun nah, invest your life savings into an unregulated market for skins in a video game instead
@sun i dont think they can ever be safe, and trying to make them safe is how you end up with government sponsored "safe" injection sights, where they just help facilitate destructive behavior.
@Nudhul I updated this post on a different network to say. "minimally-safe" because I agree that it can't be made truly above-board, it will always be risky and have exploitation. The goal for the government is harm management, not making it perfectly safe
@sun @Nudhul "harm management" policies (e.g. safe supply) for opiates in canada made the epidemic so much worse, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzB1v-CFpf0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzB1v-CFpf0
@sun i dont think the government should be trying to manage people's lives and habits. people keep trying to outsource their familial obligations to the state and that only worsens everything
@grey @Nudhul imo the problem is that progs try to remove stigma and make it totally not a moral issue at all. it still needs to be recognized as a destructive activity and moved outside of the sphere of acceptability. you should have to exit normal society temporarily to participate, e.g. red light districts.
@sun
The internet has made it impossible to mitigate in any traditional “away from daily life” way. Before, the biggest thing that kept most people from a crippling porn addiction was the need to physically go somewhere and pay for it or physically mail these shady fucks money.
The internet has made it impossible to mitigate in any traditional “away from daily life” way. Before, the biggest thing that kept most people from a crippling porn addiction was the need to physically go somewhere and pay for it or physically mail these shady fucks money.
@sun a small group of people will just never cooperate and actively try to subvert the system and make any attempts at harm mitigation completely useless. thats how you get pachinko parlors being 90% korean owned. carving out exemptions makes it impossible to control later on
@icedquinn @sun prostitution imo is hugely positive for a lot of guys
@mischievoustomato @sun i was mostly getting at proclamations of good or bad requires supplying a morality oracle but now i'm reading about statistical testing instead
@sun @Nudhul
moral and beneficial are not the same, and the former often inhibits the latter
if you stigmatise potentially dangerous activities you get people doing them secretly / cluelessly / shamefully / exploitably + a few people choosing to do so just to spite you
negative reinforcement methods can often be more expedient, but positive reinforcement is still better in most cases, as negative both drives subjects away from the trainer and has much decreased potency when the trainer isn't watching
-- dog and child trainer (and former child) me
moral and beneficial are not the same, and the former often inhibits the latter
if you stigmatise potentially dangerous activities you get people doing them secretly / cluelessly / shamefully / exploitably + a few people choosing to do so just to spite you
negative reinforcement methods can often be more expedient, but positive reinforcement is still better in most cases, as negative both drives subjects away from the trainer and has much decreased potency when the trainer isn't watching
-- dog and child trainer (and former child) me
@icedquinn @sun bad because i suppose some women could be coerced into being prostitutes, and some other perhaps don't really wanna be those but don't have any other choice due to opportunities? IDK.
@mischievoustomato@tsundere.love @icedquinn@blob.cat @sun@shitposter.world
All women are economically coerced into the sex trade whether you want to admit it or not. It all comes down to whether or not men are okay with that, and the majority are considering most of them rape these women and get away with it. Most men don't care that a woman is only there for monetary reasons as long as they can get their nut on. That is the problem.
We do not see our society encouraging young men to sign up for onlyfans as soon as they turn 18 but society does that to young women.
@teratology @sun @mischievoustomato because men aren't encouraged, they're just drafted and sent off to die in the war.
@icedquinn@blob.cat @sun@shitposter.world @mischievoustomato@tsundere.love that's true, but there's also a strong connection between the military and prostitution in general. San Diego for example has a high frequency of prostitution related to the military presence there, similar to Hawaii. LGBT youth are also over represented in the sex trade so it can still happen to men, just not as often as it happens to women.
@teratology @sun @mischievoustomato if professions were banned because people just don't like doing the work there would be very few jobs.
if the argument is about risk profiles, every job has one.
it always ultimately just comes back down to capitalism is crap.
if the argument is about risk profiles, every job has one.
it always ultimately just comes back down to capitalism is crap.
@teratology @sun @icedquinn @mischievoustomato
>We do not see our society encouraging young men to sign up for onlyfans as soon as they turn 18 but society does that to young women.
I do not know in what society you live, but my society does not encourage women to whore out. And I live in a country that is very well known for its porn production. But that's maybe my willful ignorace of the world around me in general.
>We do not see our society encouraging young men to sign up for onlyfans as soon as they turn 18 but society does that to young women.
I do not know in what society you live, but my society does not encourage women to whore out. And I live in a country that is very well known for its porn production. But that's maybe my willful ignorace of the world around me in general.
@phnt @teratology @sun @mischievoustomato i have seen some cases where people who don't know anything about the biz will handwave "just stream as a job" like its something you just do and succeed at casually. statistics says no, even onlyfans is still following the extremistan scale of superwinners-take-all.
some people like to try and equate something being accessible with it being mandatory and i just ignore this entirely.
my father used to try that game where if a smoking bar gives hazard pay he'd say that's bad because "it forces everyone to work there instead" and it's like no, it doesn't, people are not obligated to take the highest monetary option on the table just because it exists.
it might be that nobody wants to work that job and they pay so much you feel compelled to put up with health complications from inhaling second hand smoke. but you weren't 'forced' to do it.
"i can't find economic opportunities that i like better" remains a problem even if you paternialistically ban random jobs to appease space wizards.
some people like to try and equate something being accessible with it being mandatory and i just ignore this entirely.
my father used to try that game where if a smoking bar gives hazard pay he'd say that's bad because "it forces everyone to work there instead" and it's like no, it doesn't, people are not obligated to take the highest monetary option on the table just because it exists.
it might be that nobody wants to work that job and they pay so much you feel compelled to put up with health complications from inhaling second hand smoke. but you weren't 'forced' to do it.
"i can't find economic opportunities that i like better" remains a problem even if you paternialistically ban random jobs to appease space wizards.
@phnt @mischievoustomato @sun @teratology usually i'd just point to coal mining as an example. coal mining was a job in permanent demand, carried high risk of long-term injury and death, bad bosses, etc, but it was never considered a 'moral imperative' to stop men from dying to black lung. you might argue that having to resort to this job sucks, and it did, but it was also never considered a moral imperative that having to take a high risk job because the easy jobs are taken by nepobabies was something to be fixed either.
the reality is morality is made up and the points don't matter. its not born out of a concept of algebraic reasoning rooted in an attempt to find a degree of fairness. it's just some random shit people impose and basically never explain.
the reality is morality is made up and the points don't matter. its not born out of a concept of algebraic reasoning rooted in an attempt to find a degree of fairness. it's just some random shit people impose and basically never explain.
@mischievoustomato @phnt @sun @teratology it is entirely possible to do so, though, which is why i used to ask people to clarify things like "is your argument that any job with a 20% year over chance of death should be banned?" but they just huff and leave.
i think heinlein tried to make a point once that moral arguments should carry proofs or they aren't worth having, but nobody ever remembered that from starship troopers.
i think heinlein tried to make a point once that moral arguments should carry proofs or they aren't worth having, but nobody ever remembered that from starship troopers.
@teratology @mischievoustomato @sun @icedquinn WHY THE FUCK WOULD ANY SOCIETY ENCOURAGE MEN TO SIGN UP FOR ONLYFANS?
NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MEN
MEN ARE MADE TO SELL THEIR BODY IN MANUAL LABOR, UNDER THREAT OF STARVATION AND LIFE OF AN ANIMAL
YOU KNOW YOU'RE A DUMB PIECE OF MEAT AND YOUR BODY IS BREAKING DOWN DAY AFTER DAY AND SOMEDAY YOU'LL BE TOO OLD AND BROKEN DOWN TO WRENCH BOLTS ANYMORE, THEN YOU'LL DIE IN YOUR TRAILER PARK
PROSTITUTES ARE THE ONLY WOMEN WHO GET TO EXPERIENCE THE WRETCHED EXISTENCE OF BEING A LABORER, AND THEY'RE RIGHTLY LOATHED FOR IT BECAUSE IT SUCKS ASS AND DEGRADES YOU, LITERALLY MAKES YOU LESSER
ONLY THE OWNERSHIP OF CAPITAL, WORKING ONE'S OWN LAND OR BUSINESS, ALLOWS A WORKER TO PRESERVE ANY SENSE OF HUMAN DIGNITY
HENCE THE OLD AMERICAN DREAM OF A SOCIETY WHERE EVERY MAN IS IN SOME SMALL WAY A SELFHOLDER
BUT THAT GARAGE HAD SALED LONG AGO.
NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MEN
MEN ARE MADE TO SELL THEIR BODY IN MANUAL LABOR, UNDER THREAT OF STARVATION AND LIFE OF AN ANIMAL
YOU KNOW YOU'RE A DUMB PIECE OF MEAT AND YOUR BODY IS BREAKING DOWN DAY AFTER DAY AND SOMEDAY YOU'LL BE TOO OLD AND BROKEN DOWN TO WRENCH BOLTS ANYMORE, THEN YOU'LL DIE IN YOUR TRAILER PARK
PROSTITUTES ARE THE ONLY WOMEN WHO GET TO EXPERIENCE THE WRETCHED EXISTENCE OF BEING A LABORER, AND THEY'RE RIGHTLY LOATHED FOR IT BECAUSE IT SUCKS ASS AND DEGRADES YOU, LITERALLY MAKES YOU LESSER
ONLY THE OWNERSHIP OF CAPITAL, WORKING ONE'S OWN LAND OR BUSINESS, ALLOWS A WORKER TO PRESERVE ANY SENSE OF HUMAN DIGNITY
HENCE THE OLD AMERICAN DREAM OF A SOCIETY WHERE EVERY MAN IS IN SOME SMALL WAY A SELFHOLDER
BUT THAT GARAGE HAD SALED LONG AGO.
@icedquinn @sun IF YOU'RE UNABLE TO GET A GUT FEELING FOR IT YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE ANY SAY IN SETTING POLICY, SORRY
@sun@shitposter.world Internet gambling will I think really become a problem during the next recession. It's such a scam- since the implementations can pretty much do whatever they like and y'know-- you're probably funding someone really bad by partaking.
I suppose with prostitution you could argue, in contrast, that at least there are "handlers" to deal with / regulate / whatever. In contrast "online gambling" has all of its handlers, operators, algorithms and etc hidden from scrutiny, forever.
Teach people to come up w their own creations/products, solve their own problems, build whatever's possible themselves and mostly ppl wil partake in neither.
I think what's coming down the pike with millenials and gambling will be really really bad unless the hammer falls pretty soon.
@teratology @mischievoustomato @sun @icedquinn "EY MY NAME IS BIG TONY FROM RHODE ISLAND AND THIS IS MY ONLYFANS
FOR ONLY TEN BUCKS A MONTH YOU CAN SEE ALL THE PICS OF MY CHODE AND HAIRY ASS YOU'D LIKE, BABYCAKES"
NAH, SON
BIG TONY IS GOING TO A CONCRETE PLANT
HE'S GONNA DIE AT AGE 45 FROM LUNG SILICATION IF HE ISN'T ROLLED INTO THE CONCRETE MIXER
FOR ONLY TEN BUCKS A MONTH YOU CAN SEE ALL THE PICS OF MY CHODE AND HAIRY ASS YOU'D LIKE, BABYCAKES"
NAH, SON
BIG TONY IS GOING TO A CONCRETE PLANT
HE'S GONNA DIE AT AGE 45 FROM LUNG SILICATION IF HE ISN'T ROLLED INTO THE CONCRETE MIXER
"Thanks for not doing crack this month, here's a cookie!"
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