In short, optimizing for brevity in this political and philosophical environment means too much meaning is lost to be meaningful. That's why so many people want to talk to each other but end up talking past each other. (and if you don't like effortposting, you can stop here!)
If the conversation is nothing but platitudes and nobody is understanding each other and everyone is just talking at each other uncritically, then maybe it's a conversation worth killing. The Internet (and places like Twitter in particular) are filled with discussions like that every day, going nowhere except dragging the people involved to Hell.
The problem is a rhetorical tactic called dialectic, initiated by Hagel and promoted by Marx, but today used widely because we're all living in a post-Marx civilization, which requires all words to have a double meaning, so you can say a sentence with words that are designed to have different connotations to different groups listening. It means you need to lay out your argument in its entirety because if you're relying on words meaning to carry shorthand, you're not communicating effectively with anyone outside of your tribe.
An example of this is the word "hate". To the non-left, we've been trained to think of it as the robotic recitation of the isms and phobias. "racist sexist misogynistic homophobic transphobic" as we've been 'educated'. To the left, it's understood that you can hate all sorts of people and it's not hate. Men? Toxic! Whites? Privileged! Heterosexual? Just plain evil! Conservative? Nazis you should immediately punch! It's amazing how liberating it must be to reject hate by hating almost everyone! Of course, you might think "ok so the right can just use the same definition!" no, it doesn't work that way.
One thing I noticed a lot and eventually stopped listening to is experts who would take an innocuous thing Trump for example says, and they'd say with authority "When he says this he really means" and then lays out a completely different, usually bigoted thing he didn't say. Eventually I had to stop listening to those "experts" because they were lying and trying to rewire my language centers. Their statements were baseless, but people listening to them uncritically nodding along and then would hear people outside their tribe and assume the worst, and no conversation could actually take place without long form explanation.
An example of this is "Make America Great Again". While imperfect particularly for marginalized groups, the postwar period was a great time for the average American working class family. They were able to own a home, buy a car (or even two cars), their homes were constantly seeing amazing new technologies that were making the average person's life better -- 75% of refrigerators on earth were owned by Americans, for example. A single earner could support a family, and households could afford several kids and had the space to raise those families. It was also a high trust society. People felt like they could let their kids play outside alone, keep their doors unlocked, and knew their neighbors, and often had social connections such as friendships. By contrast, today most young people feel like they'll never own a home, most young people can't afford cars or fuel, technology is relatively stagnant and the last major new technology was decades ago, two earners are required just to make ends meet and households feel like they can't afford kids at all, let alone several, and even if they thought they could afford several they don't have the space for kids often living in crowded apartments, and people feel atomized, anonymous, and uncared for, often not having many or any friendships. Wages as % of GDP are lower every year, and individuals pay most income taxes. When Trump says he wants to "Make America Great Again", he isn't saying he wants racism and sexism back, he says he wants the ordinary American worker to be empowered again, and yet the left spits on that phrase. The knee-jerk assumption that everyone who wants to "Make America Great Again" actually wants to make America white supremacist again shows the strong de facto disconnect between the left and the working class.
If the conversation is nothing but platitudes and nobody is understanding each other and everyone is just talking at each other uncritically, then maybe it's a conversation worth killing. The Internet (and places like Twitter in particular) are filled with discussions like that every day, going nowhere except dragging the people involved to Hell.
The problem is a rhetorical tactic called dialectic, initiated by Hagel and promoted by Marx, but today used widely because we're all living in a post-Marx civilization, which requires all words to have a double meaning, so you can say a sentence with words that are designed to have different connotations to different groups listening. It means you need to lay out your argument in its entirety because if you're relying on words meaning to carry shorthand, you're not communicating effectively with anyone outside of your tribe.
An example of this is the word "hate". To the non-left, we've been trained to think of it as the robotic recitation of the isms and phobias. "racist sexist misogynistic homophobic transphobic" as we've been 'educated'. To the left, it's understood that you can hate all sorts of people and it's not hate. Men? Toxic! Whites? Privileged! Heterosexual? Just plain evil! Conservative? Nazis you should immediately punch! It's amazing how liberating it must be to reject hate by hating almost everyone! Of course, you might think "ok so the right can just use the same definition!" no, it doesn't work that way.
One thing I noticed a lot and eventually stopped listening to is experts who would take an innocuous thing Trump for example says, and they'd say with authority "When he says this he really means" and then lays out a completely different, usually bigoted thing he didn't say. Eventually I had to stop listening to those "experts" because they were lying and trying to rewire my language centers. Their statements were baseless, but people listening to them uncritically nodding along and then would hear people outside their tribe and assume the worst, and no conversation could actually take place without long form explanation.
An example of this is "Make America Great Again". While imperfect particularly for marginalized groups, the postwar period was a great time for the average American working class family. They were able to own a home, buy a car (or even two cars), their homes were constantly seeing amazing new technologies that were making the average person's life better -- 75% of refrigerators on earth were owned by Americans, for example. A single earner could support a family, and households could afford several kids and had the space to raise those families. It was also a high trust society. People felt like they could let their kids play outside alone, keep their doors unlocked, and knew their neighbors, and often had social connections such as friendships. By contrast, today most young people feel like they'll never own a home, most young people can't afford cars or fuel, technology is relatively stagnant and the last major new technology was decades ago, two earners are required just to make ends meet and households feel like they can't afford kids at all, let alone several, and even if they thought they could afford several they don't have the space for kids often living in crowded apartments, and people feel atomized, anonymous, and uncared for, often not having many or any friendships. Wages as % of GDP are lower every year, and individuals pay most income taxes. When Trump says he wants to "Make America Great Again", he isn't saying he wants racism and sexism back, he says he wants the ordinary American worker to be empowered again, and yet the left spits on that phrase. The knee-jerk assumption that everyone who wants to "Make America Great Again" actually wants to make America white supremacist again shows the strong de facto disconnect between the left and the working class.
"we banned you, banned your subs, downvoted your posts, and called you Hitler Satan! Where'd you all go?"
Well his original premise or this thread is that maybe the media is more biased toward the left than most on the left realized.
I can live with that.
I can live with that.
> constantly moves targets
Guess it depends on why you're in the conversation.
That's life man. Stuff changes. Can't say my perspectives haven't changed from 8 yrs ago.
I'd rather be having the conversations and exchanging the ideas than end up like reddit.
Guess it depends on why you're in the conversation.
That's life man. Stuff changes. Can't say my perspectives haven't changed from 8 yrs ago.
I'd rather be having the conversations and exchanging the ideas than end up like reddit.
> a decentralized reddit mastodon combo used by everyone could surface for us
💯
Would love to see someone with the influence of Musk get this started.
💯
Would love to see someone with the influence of Musk get this started.
I like @wjmaggos he usually ends up getting piled on due to the fact that he's willing to participate in this side of the fediverse but this is how the fediverse could be if fediblock didn't exist.
Healthy conversations and the free exchange of ideas should be the norm. I think censorship has put up natural barriers to people's ability/willingness to engage.
Good ideas win absent of censorship.
Healthy conversations and the free exchange of ideas should be the norm. I think censorship has put up natural barriers to people's ability/willingness to engage.
Good ideas win absent of censorship.
We're getting into nuances of words at this point.
Romney was "right" but he's the same spirit animal as Kamala.
🤷♂️
Romney was "right" but he's the same spirit animal as Kamala.
🤷♂️
> Power for the regime is not a lefty thing.
🤝
> I don't think we can look at either party to know what's left or right.
Also true, because they are both aligned with ensuring power for the regime. Sometimes they fight over scaps of that power. Sometimes they switch positions on things.
Cause their highest interest is power, not the local community, not the society.
🤝
> I don't think we can look at either party to know what's left or right.
Also true, because they are both aligned with ensuring power for the regime. Sometimes they fight over scaps of that power. Sometimes they switch positions on things.
Cause their highest interest is power, not the local community, not the society.
The reaction in context is wild:
"Whoopsie doopsie! Looks like a slight training issue caused us to accidentally discriminate against citizens based on political affiliation during a catastrophic natural disaster!
Well gosh darn, you know?
We'll have to try and do better next time for sure!"
"Whoopsie doopsie! Looks like a slight training issue caused us to accidentally discriminate against citizens based on political affiliation during a catastrophic natural disaster!
Well gosh darn, you know?
We'll have to try and do better next time for sure!"
The action they will take is to ensure next time there is no record of it anywhere as evidence.
"Unbelievable to think the gov would think this is OK"
Oh, you sweet summer child. 😔
Oh, you sweet summer child. 😔
Remember that lady that was in charge of the GOP for years and they kept losing everywhere and now she's gone and they won?
Curious. 🤔
Curious. 🤔
> so what lefty things do they really care about that you've seen them break the illusion to push on their audience?
Power for the regime.
A great specific example is RINOs.
Fox loves them.
Romney, Cheney, the Bush family, etc. Fox hates Trump.
Like the entire GOP institution, Fox stands for what the Democrats want, but more slowly.
Power for the regime.
A great specific example is RINOs.
Fox loves them.
Romney, Cheney, the Bush family, etc. Fox hates Trump.
Like the entire GOP institution, Fox stands for what the Democrats want, but more slowly.
That's how controlled opposition works.
You give them the little things you don't care about so that you have their ear on the things you do care about.
You give them the little things you don't care about so that you have their ear on the things you do care about.